DDO 2023

[biscoe]

Emporia can never win, April has too much wind so move it to June with no wind. ECC is too long and boring so they make a few more difficult holes and people complain. Jones Supreme was too hard so they don't even use it and it gets pulled and set back to Jones East and West. The event gets moved to June separate from the AM event in April and people complain that no one is there to spectate. I strongly dislike ball golf courses for disc golf purposes as much as most people, but ECC isn't as bad as the Vegas courses (to watch on coverage) and isn't even close to as nice to watch as the pacific northwest courses. I wouldn't hate it if DDO went back to Olpe Lake and retired ECC.

I don't think ECC is as bad as people make it out to be. It has gotten better every year. The biggest problem imo is that the par 3's with the exception of 16 are pretty uninteresting. Great par 3's are really hard to design with basically nondescript land though.

 

[PastorofMuppets]

I don't think ECC is as bad as people make it out to be. It has gotten better every year. The biggest problem imo is that the par 3's with the exception of 16 are pretty uninteresting. Great par 3's are really hard to design with basically nondescript land though.

I agree, I really enjoyed playing it and spectating there as well. It just doesn't come off well on coverage and like you said, most of the Par 3's are very difficult to create organically there with the limited "unique" property characteristics. The course has to tread a very thin line because of the possibility of ridiculous wind. Make it too hard and when the wind blows it's nearly impossible to play, make it too easy and when there is no wind, it gets shredded with no scoring separation.

 

[Jolt]

Strange that Kristin missed 16 all 3 rounds, ,she basicy lost the tournament by taking 12 throws to play hole 16.

You just CANT play that shot short, you have a back wall now

 

[seedlings]

Strange that Kristin missed 16 all 3 rounds, ,she basicy lost the tournament by taking 12 throws to play hole 16.

You just CANT play that shot short, you have a back wall now

On day one we watched more people miss than make the island. Whole cards missed. That Kevin Jones doink off the box, imho, punched him in the gut. He was in the lead. Then we watched the roll away on 18's green. Oof.

Standing behind the tee, I told my buddies if I had 10 throws, I might make one on the island. They were like, nah, we could surely make more than that. After watching the pros, I'd probably miss all 10.

 

[Shallows]

What a weekend by the "King of Huntington Beach" as they call him.

I think ECC and Preserve are the only golf courses I'm okay with being on tour as ECC has the history and a few iconic holes and the Preserve has enough flexibility to bend into a good DG course. It's the Midwest, what are you going to do?

Shoot LVC and OTB and especially Glendoveer into the sun. Should be ashamed to use a ball golf course in a place with such beautiful natural terrain.

 

[biscoe]

What a weekend by the "King of Huntington Beach" as they call him.

I think ECC and Preserve are the only golf courses I'm okay with being on tour as ECC has the history and a few iconic holes and the Preserve has enough flexibility to bend into a good DG course. It's the Midwest, what are you going to do?

Shoot LVC and OTB and especially Glendoveer into the sun. Should be ashamed to use a ball golf course in a place with such beautiful natural terrain.

Hmmm... while i think Glendoveer is the best property of all the golf courses by a wide margin, you do have something of a point there re the land in the Northwest. The golf course in Vegas on the other hand is waaaaay nicer than anything else they would be likely to have access to. I suspect the same is the case in Stockton although don't know that for a fact. The other golf course they used to use when the event was the San Francisco Open or whatever was probably the best of the golf course layouts we have seen to date. Land in the Bay Area is so expensive though that it makes sense for them to move out of town.

 

[_MTL_]

I don't think ECC is as bad as people make it out to be. It has gotten better every year. The biggest problem imo is that the par 3's with the exception of 16 are pretty uninteresting. Great par 3's are really hard to design with basically nondescript land though.

Hole 4 is an outstanding par 3. Two options - one longer and over OB but nothing in the way, the other directly there, no OB but have to shape a shot both to a sloping green.

 

[RowingBoats]

Sheesh good for Parker that was some crazy stuff. I can't even comprehend that kind of clutch mentality with no experience.

 

[txmxer]

Watched Jomez coverage of round 3. Even though DGN is bouncing from card to card, minimizing downtime, it's just not interesting to watch for hours.

Boiling it down to highlights is tolerable IMO and Jomez lead card presentation was solid and worth a watch for the final round.

 

[foxdawg10]

Strange that Kristin missed 16 all 3 rounds, ,she basicy lost the tournament by taking 12 throws to play hole 16.

You just CANT play that shot short, you have a back wall now

It boggles my mind how Holyn missed that shot in the 3rd round AND in the playoff. Especially after Hailey parked it in the playoff. Just get on the green and go for the putt from where ever it lands. Either you make the putt or you don't.

I almost thing Holyn tried to get within the bullseye on the shot and tried to finesse it too much. I was rooting for her, she has been so close this year. It's only a matter of time.

 

[Arisugawa]

Strange that Kristin missed 16 all 3 rounds, ,she basicy lost the tournament by taking 12 throws to play hole 16.

You just CANT play that shot short, you have a back wall now

On day one we watched more people miss than make the island. Whole cards missed. That Kevin Jones doink off the box, imho, punched him in the gut. He was in the lead. Then we watched the roll away on 18's green. Oof.

Standing behind the tee, I told my buddies if I had 10 throws, I might make one on the island. They were like, nah, we could surely make more than that. After watching the pros, I'd probably miss all 10.

It boggles my mind how Holyn missed that shot in the 3rd round AND in the playoff. Especially after Hailey parked it in the playoff. Just get on the green and go for the putt from where ever it lands. Either you make the putt or you don't.

I almost thing Holyn tried to get within the bullseye on the shot and tried to finesse it too much. I was rooting for her, she has been so close this year. It's only a matter of time.

At the risk of sounding obvious ... that is not an easy shot. Yes, there is the wall, but the wall implies you didn't short the drive, didn't release it early, didn't turn it over, that the disc won't hit vertically and roll, etc. The landing zone is ridiculously small from the tee area, and there are a lot of tiny mistakes that a more generous island, or an artificial island walled with logs or hay bales, will help correct.

 

[Jolt]

Its NOT an easy shot...BUT to miss it 3 times like Kristin did in low winds is not ok.

Even if its not an easy shot...it is a specific shot that you can go and practice over and over.
One bogey, one par and one Birdy lite Kristen made at Worlds is Ok...miss 3 times in a row is not.

 

[foxdawg10]

At the risk of sounding obvious ... that is not an easy shot. Yes, there is the wall, but the wall implies you didn't short the drive, didn't release it early, didn't turn it over, that the disc won't hit vertically and roll, etc. The landing zone is ridiculously small from the tee area, and there are a lot of tiny mistakes that a more generous island, or an artificial island walled with logs or hay bales, will help correct.

Nobody implied it is an easy shot.
But, these are two of the best FPO players we are talking about, not average Joe's like us. And the wind was as calm as you are going to get it n Kansas.

At least give it a chance. Like they say in golf, never up, never in.

 

[Arisugawa]

Nobody implied it is an easy shot.
But, these are two of the best FPO players we are talking about, not average Joe's like us. And the wind was as calm as you are going to get it n Kansas.

Which highlights how difficult that shot actually is. I mean, it's very easy to say it's the top of the field, they need to be making or at least attempting to make the island.

I really can't stress this enough. 320 feet onto a sloping green that isn't even a full C1 circumference in size, requiring a slightly uphill finish to ensure you don't smack the side of the island and fall into the water? Even in the calmest conditions, the slightest error or unexpected breeze wrecks the shot.

27 of 47 drives went OB in Round 3.
23 of 47 in Round 2
25 of 48 in Round 1.

Basically half the field or more went OB off the tee each round.

 

[BuiltTooLong]

You have to wonder how Holyn, Tattar, and others are familiar with the disc they are throwing on hole 16 as well. They all had plunked multiple times during the tournament (not including practice rounds) so they are most likely throwing a disc they don't know and won't miss too much if gone forever. Seemed like Holyn was going to for a flex type of shot, similar to the shape she threw on 18. I think the pure hyzer is much higher % shot for this hole, it certainly would be for me anyway.

 

[Shallows]

Watched Jomez coverage of round 3. Even though DGN is bouncing from card to card, minimizing downtime, it's just not interesting to watch for hours.

Boiling it down to highlights is tolerable IMO and Jomez lead card presentation was solid and worth a watch for the final round.

A real issue for DGN is that even if the data service is adequate, they don't have the real-time exposure control to effectively pick out discs against the bright sky. This is not an issue with wooded holes but on these golf courses there's just not effective contrast.

 

[foxdawg10]

You have to wonder how Holyn, Tattar, and others are familiar with the disc they are throwing on hole 16 as well. They all had plunked multiple times during the tournament (not including practice rounds) so they are most likely throwing a disc they don't know and won't miss too much if gone forever. Seemed like Holyn was going to for a flex type of shot, similar to the shape she threw on 18. I think the pure hyzer is much higher % shot for this hole, it certainly would be for me anyway.

I agree with Holyn. It looked like a good line, and she has the power to get there. I can't really second guess her too much. I think it is a matter of time before she puts it all together and scores a win.

 

[travisov]

`
Shoot LVC and OTB and especially Glendoveer into the sun. Should be ashamed to use a ball golf course in a place with such beautiful natural terrain.

Glendoveer is way better than you're giving it credit for. Granted, the West course is not particularly exciting. But the East course is the rare ball golf course that requires consistent shot shaping throughout the 18. Also, are you suggesting that Glendo isn't a natural beauty?

And, I live in the area, so I'd also point to the fact that Milo is now too easy for the pros. Too easy - they literally had to dump more than half the holes because the players felt they were too easy. But for regular players, Milo is pretty **** challenging. Where are you going to find a place in the PNW that isn't too easy for the pros if Milo is too easy? If it's a disc golf course, it doesn't exist. The reason being...DISC GOLF COURSES ARE DESIGNED FOR PEOPLE LIKE YOU AND ME!

simply put: Regularly established disc golf courses are for the majority of players. The minority of players (pros) need money, exposure, and most of all...a challenge.

sorry to say it, but the pro tour is going to continue to feature more ball golf courses. I just don't see a world where regular bro disc golf course design is going to be sustainable as a pro tour product. does a new tier of player need to evolve? Maybe a bronze tour? Where there are intermediate players, or MP40+ who compete? That might work. Premium place, sub premium players...

 

[txmxer]

A real issue for DGN is that even if the data service is adequate, they don't have the real-time exposure control to effectively pick out discs against the bright sky. This is not an issue with wooded holes but on these golf courses there's just not effective contrast.

I'm familiar with that issue, but of the coverage I watched at DDO, they seemed to track fairly well. There were a few of the big hyzer bombs that they tracked all the way to the finish.

For me, it's just way too much uninteresting throws filling time. Even waiting until it is available as a recording and playing it at 1.25x or 1.5x I get bored with it.

The Jomez day 3 coverage is great because there were 4 people (MPO lead card) in the hunt for the majority of the round and they were all playing fairly well at times with ups and downs that kept the score close until the end.

 

[biscoe]

simply put: Regularly established disc golf courses are for the majority of players. The minority of players (pros) need money, exposure, and most of all...a challenge.

sorry to say it, but the pro tour is going to continue to feature more ball golf courses. I just don't see a world where regular bro disc golf course design is going to be sustainable as a pro tour product.

There are courses built for those players and more on the way. The reason they go to golf courses is partially for challenge, but primarily for infrastructure for both broadcast and spectators.