DGPT: 2021 MVP Open at Maple Hill Sept 3-5

[araytx]

No one is suggesting these pros don't know the rules. Simon is very experienced and I'm sure knows the rules well. But there has to be some reason to call a provisional. That has been my point. They had NO reason to think a provisional needed to be called. They 100% knew they were OB. Except they weren't. Maybe Kyle's case was a bit different, but if you are going to force players to vocalize 'provisional' before every OB throw, then just change the rule.

The wrong questions are being asked here.

The questions aren't "why didn't the spotter know the rule" or "why didn't Kyle call a provisional" or "why isn't there an auto provisional rule for drop zones" or whatever...

it's...

"Why was the line put on the other side of the wall?"

None of these questions are even being asked if the line had been marked properly.

Someone like Steve Dodge, who has run majors and has been voted as TD of the year, shouldn't make this mistake.

I disagree that putting the line outside the wall is a mistake or even it's a question to be explored. I think that is the right idea. The real problem, to me, involves a person being "asked" to be a spotter on a hole and he/she not properly equipped or trained for that specific job.


And it's not "calling a provisional every time a throw is OB"; it's calling one when you don't SEE (for yourself) that you're OB. Any time I proceed to a drop zone before/without seeing where my disc landed, then I call a provisional. I KNOW you've seen people call provisionals when they could see their throw, so I don't think it's too much to ask to have them know to call one when they don't.

 

[ru4por]

Since there was a lot of rain, I suppose one question is whether the shore was so muddy the string was hard to see?

Also, there were three people running around the green with flags: one adult and two kids. Where all three spotters? And which one waved the red flag for Kyle's disc?

Spotters cannot make an OB call. I am not a very big fan of flags for this reason. It is really just to give the player immediate feedback. The player should walk down and look for himself all the time. It is then on the group to make the call. Take away the flag, you take away the problem.

 

[Cgkdisc]

Seems like "official" flaggers are a luxury if players are required to rethrow from their lie if going OB. Otherwise, unnecessary complication, presuming drop zone is far enough down the fairway (as it should be) for players walk forward to confirm in close calls.

 

[teemkey]

Spotters cannot make an OB call. I am not a very big fan of flags for this reason. It is really just to give the player immediate feedback. The player should walk down and look for himself all the time. It is then on the group to make the call. Take away the flag, you take away the problem.

From my first post in this thread:

...
The problem is that the spotter waved the red flag, and the rules only permit the player's group and tournament officials to impose an OB penalty (though it's not stated directly, and spotters are right 99.9% of the time).
...

Having a spotter clearly improves pace of play, and spotter errors are rare. However, in the case of Maple Hill #8 the spotters (and "8-holes") seemed more oriented to entertainment than accuracy; though (maybe) only one error was made, and the post production commentators all seemed to enjoy the performance.

 

[Rocketnumber9]

From my first post in this thread:



Having a spotter clearly improves pace of play, and spotter errors are rare. However, in the case of Maple Hill #8 the spotters (and "8-holes") seemed more oriented to entertainment than accuracy; though (maybe) only one error was made, and the post production commentators all seemed to enjoy the performance.

Kyle's penalty shots, where the red flag was waved, were on hole 5.

 

[dehaas]

Somebody else mentioned it earlier, I like the idea of the spotter crossing the red and green flags over their head to signal a close call.

Say maybe if a disc lands within a foot of OB either way the spotter signals both flags indicating to the group that they need to check out the lie and agree on a call.

 

[glassila]

From my first post in this thread:



Having a spotter clearly improves pace of play, and spotter errors are rare. However, in the case of Maple Hill #8 the spotters (and "8-holes") seemed more oriented to entertainment than accuracy; though (maybe) only one error was made, and the post production commentators all seemed to enjoy the performance.

I don't like when referees/judges/umpires in any sport try to become part of the entertainment.

 

[BogeyNoMore]

Way to ruin a star birdie, Vinnie. :|

 

[ru4por]

I have spotted numerous times. Never one that faux called OB. It is pointless and the time savings is questionable, at best. Really, their only purpose is entertainment.

 

[BogeyNoMore]

From my first post in this thread:



Having a spotter clearly improves pace of play, and spotter errors are rare. However, in the case of Maple Hill #8 the spotters (and "8-holes") seemed more oriented to entertainment than accuracy; though (maybe) only one error was made, and the post production commentators all seemed to enjoy the performance.

Totally agree on the spotters. They're there to inform what they saw, flag the disc, put players on their disc.

As for the 8-holes: they're spectators.
As long as they don't disturb/distract players, or interfere with shots, I don't see a problem with them being a bit rowdy, and getting into it. I bet most players love the fans being so into it. Whole different beast than spotters getting all "Hey, look at me."

 

[teemkey]

Kyle's penalty shots, where the red flag was waved, were on hole 5.

Right, right. Those two holes run together in my mind. Mostly the over the water to a pin close to the shore.

 

[teemkey]

I have spotted numerous times.
...

Me too. Holding back the players at the tee on doglegs and finding discs in thick shule are the most useful tasks. You can usually hear the discs rip through the trees and quickly run close to where it came to rest.

During 2014 worlds I worked a hole with a water shot that needed to not only clear water, but also an asphalt path about 30' past the water (at Trojan Park), The TD encouraged an indication of whether the disc cleared the path or not so the players could play from the far side of the water if they never got in bounds (so they didn't walk around the lake, then have to walk back). I'd wave the red flag, then point to where I last saw it in bounds. There was a stiff headwind that day, and 8-10 shots needed that call.

Some groups over ruled my call, some didn't question it. The only player who wanted to talk about it with me was Philo, and he was quite nice about it.

 

[glassila]

As for the 8-holes: they're spectators.
As long as they don't disturb/distract players, or interfere with shots, I don't see a problem with them being a bit rowdy, and getting into it. I bet most players love the fans being so into it. Whole different beast than spotters getting all "Hey, look at me."

The fans at hole 8 at Maple Hill remind me of hole 16 of the Waste Management Phoenix Open (PGA) where rowdy fans cheer for good shots and boo bad ones. :clap:

 

[araytx]

Somebody else mentioned it earlier, I like the idea of the spotter crossing the red and green flags over their head to signal a close call.

Say maybe if a disc lands within a foot of OB either way the spotter signals both flags indicating to the group that they need to check out the lie and agree on a call.

Or use three flags, that's what our team has done (red, green, and either yellow or white).

 

[the_lung]

For the current DGPT event, the final women's putt went in about 25 minutes ago. FPO final results with payouts are now available on the PDGA website.

NOT almost 48 hours later, like the 2021 MVP Open.