"Disc Golf Not as Green as it seems"

[rd.bittle]

Good luck.

 

[Peterb]

True.

Dela has one big thing going for it though - the City Government loves it. They only maintain the parking area, which they charge $2 to park in. So it brings in Tourism for almost no effort. They also love that the Course works with City on a lot of things, like its a great place for the city to dump fallen trees - which are quite awesome for avoiding going OB on a lot of holes for the DGers. The Dela DGC would be wise to maintain good relations with the City in this manner.

agreed. Yet the same people who are trying to block AJC and are trying to get Pinto removed will sure as sh*t go after delaveaga next. Why? Well, in a sense I don't know if they have anything better to do. They also do not believe that parks should be for anything but passive recreation. We simply cannot let them win this battle to define what parks should be for, especially in an era where we need to provide many different kinds of recreation so that people have more choices and more opportunities to enjoy the great outdoors.

As an aside, when I went to Europe, I was surprised at how developed their 'wilderness' areas are. There are high mountain shelters every 5k or so all along the alps for instance. You can backpack your way across the alps with nothing more than money and some change of clothes, sleeping in these refuges night after night. Oh and they serve beer, and great food too. Day hikers love them as well, as do mountain bikers. And guess what, they have a HUGE green vote as a result of this minor development.

Here, there's no way people would ever allow that to happen in a place like the sierra. Consequently, there are fewer people who get to experience the outdoors and fewer people who actually care.

I understand the attraction of wilderness and the awesome feeling of being the only one for miles around. However, I often feel that those who seek refuge in urban parks for spiritual reasons have a misanthropic streak that belies their intentions.

 

[humchris85]

agreed. Yet the same people who are trying to block AJC and are trying to get Pinto removed will sure as sh*t go after delaveaga next. Why? Well, in a sense I don't know if they have anything better to do. They also do not believe that parks should be for anything but passive recreation. We simply cannot let them win this battle to define what parks should be for, especially in an era where we need to provide many different kinds of recreation so that people have more choices and more opportunities to enjoy the great outdoors.

As an aside, when I went to Europe, I was surprised at how developed their 'wilderness' areas are. There are high mountain shelters every 5k or so all along the alps for instance. You can backpack your way across the alps with nothing more than money and some change of clothes, sleeping in these refuges night after night. Oh and they serve beer, and great food too. Day hikers love them as well, as do mountain bikers. And guess what, they have a HUGE green vote as a result of this minor development.

Here, there's no way people would ever allow that to happen in a place like the sierra. Consequently, there are fewer people who get to experience the outdoors and fewer people who actually care.

I understand the attraction of wilderness and the awesome feeling of being the only one for miles around. However, I often feel that those who seek refuge in urban parks for spiritual reasons have a misanthropic streak that belies their intentions.

Well put Peter. :hfive:

 

[ohtobediscing]

I wouldn't be so sure about it. These folks are dedicated, knowledgable, and should NOT be underestimated. I've said it many times, I'll say it again: disc golf is going to be scrutinized as it expands and more people play, especially here in Northern California where there are so many people who value public lands.

The problem is, these people want the backing of the government to support their idealism, but they want to treat the park like their own private enclave, and to hell with the rest of the public.

They can try to remove it on environmental grounds, or the threat to the surrounding residences from fire.

Why would Dela be under any more threat of fire than the rest of Cali? says the wildfire fighter who's spent 3 months dousing embers there.

 

[Matt B.]

The problem is, these people want the backing of the government to support their idealism, but they want to treat the park like their own private enclave, and to hell with the rest of the public.



Why would Dela be under any more threat of fire than the rest of Cali? says the wildfire fighter who's spent 3 months dousing embers there.

Disc golfers, cigarettes, and the urban interface? Not under more of a threat than elsewhere, but the argument could be used.

 

[Peterb]

The argument is already used at DeLa. It's just more, ahem, fuel for the fire.

 

[geoblime]

I sent a nice email to Zach. I requested he read it at the meeting as I'm one voice for a disc golf family which represents many disc golf families in the Bay Area/Monterey who can't attend the meeting. Hope he does but I doubt it.

I agree with Peter, we need to stop these environuts now before it gets out of hand. I'm not saying they're crazy, just some of their ideas and examples are. And if not opposed, their message will be heard louder than ours. I've seen first hand what Peter has gone thru...he does not exaggerate.

Also, what's gone on at McLaren and continues to happen is a joke. This is from the local newspaper:
"The department will continue to seek funding to phase in the bike park, which should feature about $1.5 million to $2 million in upgrades when it's finished, said Rec and Park spokeswoman Sarah Ballard."

Farrugia, who has lived near McLaren Park his entire life, said the bike course is a key component to revitalizing the neighborhood jewel.

"McLaren Park is an absolutely gorgeous place when it's maintained properly," Farrugia said. "Any improvements to the park are going to have a huge positive impact on the community."

This is all for a down hill skills bike course. A BIKE COURSE. They're also asking for a matching grant from the Land and Water Conservation Funds. That's $500,000!!! How does that keep the park natural!?! Erosion? Mean while there's a 60 acre dog park. Again, what a joke! You can read more here on the bike park: http://www.sfexaminer.com/local/dev...bike-skills-park-coming-together-mclaren-park

I'm all for the bike course, actually sounds like fun, but how can we offer a volunteer installed Disc Golf course at minimal cost to the city and community and get so much grief when this is going to be installed...at a cost of 1.5 million to 2 million dollars total!?! Not to mention they cut out a 2.4 mile trail for artists to "contemplate" life.

Maybe we should start a website and organization called "Save McLaren from itself" :wall:

 

[Matt B.]

I agree with Peter, we need to stop these environuts now before it gets out of hand. I'm not saying they're crazy, just some of their ideas and examples are. And if not opposed, their message will be heard louder than ours.

Please don't conflate environmentalists with NIMBY activists. There is certainly some overlap, but I don't see any benefit to disc golfers taking a stance against environmentalists or environmentalism in general. This is not an "environut" issue.

 

[Moify]

As far as erosion is concerned, I feel that "nature trails" like the AT really have seen the same level of foot-traffic erosion. But I don't think land erosion is a major concern for a lot of course designers, as exposed roots and limited land really just make you work with what you have.

I don't think this erosion is ugly, and I don't think that a course in a public park really deters anyone from using it, unless the park just sucks. Everywhere I play has people walking through the course, which is fine. It's apart of the game to me. I'm never in any rush, anyway. So maybe your park just blows and you did a poor job developing the land.

As for "shrubbery destruction," isn't that kind of understood? Aside from raw fairways, I don't think anyone is purposely going 50ft off the fairway to destroy trees or break them out of the way. It's just on the fairway and right off it. Still better than wiping like land like a ball golf course would do. Everyone I play with is respectful of the environments.

...and for the "tree damage," you've got to be kidding. I've never seen a disc chop down a tree or hurt one beyond repair. Even those trees right in front of the teebox are still healthy despite large chunks out of the tree.

Instead of trying to fight courses, help people be healthier for cheaper, and let the courses go up. I would rather some kids go play disc golf than just hang out on the streets. I've honestly never heard anyone bitch about a course going up because of erosion. Why don't you put your energy in fighting mountaintop removal or rainforest destruction? Those are real environmental issues. Not people bending tree limbs and "bushwhacking."

Be smart. I genuinely see disc golf as one of the least environmentally intrusive sports. No arenas, no mass land clearing, and no chemicals. Just weed and beer. Let it happen.

 

[Peterb]

Please don't conflate environmentalists with NIMBY activists. There is certainly some overlap, but I don't see any benefit to disc golfers taking a stance against environmentalists or environmentalism in general. This is not an "environut" issue.

good point. However, it is inescapable that the basic reason for the opposition is environmental, and therefore, some level of conflation is to be expected.

My point is that disc golf's footprint is relatively light in comparison to many other activities. If you want to get riled up about something, get riled up about the xl pipeline, fracking, or mountaintop removal...not disc golf.

 

[Moify]

It's not like parks don't get trashed, anyways. You can't blame a park's ugliness on some broken tree limbs or tree dents. Blame it on trash and maintenance. Besides, homeless people play great disc golf!

 

[Peterb]

if I ever see someone breaking a tree limb on purpose, I would give them a right piece of my mind. That behavior has no place in disc golf.

 

[Moify]

if I ever see someone breaking a tree limb on purpose, I would give them a right piece of my mind. That behavior has no place in disc golf.

I agree. It's also in the rule book that you are not to change or bend limbs, even if it's to make your throw easier. Besides, it's more fun to throw around the obstacles than destroy them because you haven't practiced enough to throw out of the situation.

It's sad people do this. They had to put up signs in Ashe Co Park in West Jefferson, NC saying "do not destroy limbs." They kind of scold disc golfers there. I understand it, but I hate to see all of us blamed for something an immature a**hole did.

 

[Hampstead]

...and for the "tree damage," you've got to be kidding. I've never seen a disc chop down a tree or hurt one beyond repair. Even those trees right in front of the teebox are still healthy despite large chunks out of the tree.

Out of curiosity, what's the oldest course that you've played? Blendon Woods in Columbus was installed in 1985 and you can see many battle scarred and half trees near the tee pads where decades of errant shots have caused severe damage.

 

[Organicvoodoo]

What if your disc breaks the tree limb?

That's cool right

 

[Halcón]

I hate it when I chop off tree branches with errant drives. There's nothing worse than that deep crunch you hear when your disc hits solid wood and branch.

 

[Moify]

Out of curiosity, what's the oldest course that you've played? Blendon Woods in Columbus was installed in 1985 and you can see many battle scarred and half trees near the tee pads where decades of errant shots have caused severe damage.

It'd be Cornwallis Park in Durham, NC. Installed in '88. One of the first 100 PDGA approved courses in the country, I think. It has a lot of root erosion, and although there are definitely scars on the trees, it's just not permanently damaging them. It's not redirecting or stunting their growth.

Now I'm no arbor care specialist, but bark does heal itself. There's no permanent damage to the tree caused by discs that would prevent it from healing. It's not aesthetically pleasing by any means, but I think we've come to expect that on a course. There's just no reason to say discs are affecting the long term health of the trees.

What if your disc breaks the tree limb?

That's cool right

That is cool! Haha. That means you got a good rip.

 

[Matt B.]

It'd be Cornwallis Park in Durham, NC. Installed in '88. One of the first 100 PDGA approved courses in the country, I think. It has a lot of root erosion, and although there are definitely scars on the trees, it's just not permanently damaging them. It's not redirecting or stunting their growth.

Now I'm no arbor care specialist, but bark does heal itself. There's no permanent damage to the tree caused by discs that would prevent it from healing. It's not aesthetically pleasing by any means, but I think we've come to expect that on a course. There's just no reason to say discs are affecting the long term health of the trees.



That is cool! Haha. That means you got a good rip.

Trees have definitely been permanently damaged on disc golf courses, let's not get carried away. This typically happens when the trees are very close to the tee. Some of these trees may have been deemed an acceptable loss over time. Trees at danger of this kind of close range impact from tees need protection if you want them to stay and be healthy.

 

[Menacewarf]

if I ever see someone breaking a tree limb on purpose, I would give them a right piece of my mind. That behavior has no place in disc golf.

The writer of this article claimed in this thread he didn't want disc golf in parks so his kids could dig for insects and climb trees. Both directly harmful to lifeforms in parks.

 

[Hampstead]

It'd be Cornwallis Park in Durham, NC. Installed in '88. One of the first 100 PDGA approved courses in the country, I think. It has a lot of root erosion, and although there are definitely scars on the trees, it's just not permanently damaging them. It's not redirecting or stunting their growth.

Now I'm no arbor care specialist, but bark does heal itself. There's no permanent damage to the tree caused by discs that would prevent it from healing. It's not aesthetically pleasing by any means, but I think we've come to expect that on a course. There's just no reason to say discs are affecting the long term health of the trees.



That is cool! Haha. That means you got a good rip.

as a professional naturalist and outdoor educator I can tell you that some trees do indeed suffer from permanent damage.