Disc Golf Rule Nazi Stories

[JC17393]

Perhaps the best solution is what the bigger tournaments do... one scorecard per player. No excuses because you turn in your own card.

In my experience at tournaments where everyone has an individual card, they're still kept together as if they were all one card anyway. One guy picks them up after the players meeting, one guy at a time (rotated through the round) holds the cards and keeps score, and one guy ends up walking all the cards back to tourney central to turn them in.

The lone exception to this was the tournament where the whole group was required to turn the cards in together. But in that event, each player held a card and kept score for the whole group on that card. At the end of the round, all of the 3-4 cards had to match before they were all turned in together. Zero math errors at that tournament.

 

[ScottyLove]

In my experience at tournaments where everyone has an individual card, they're still kept together as if they were all one card anyway. One guy picks them up after the players meeting, one guy at a time (rotated through the round) holds the cards and keeps score, and one guy ends up walking all the cards back to tourney central to turn them in.

Hmmm... at The Memorial and AmWorlds we rotated the cards as a group through each player as the round progressed as you describe, but at the very end, each player got their own card to triple check... even handed it off for double-checking with other players, but ultimately you turned in YOUR OWN card. Nobody to blame but that guy in the mirror for any mistake.

 

[JC17393]

Hmmm... at The Memorial and AmWorlds we rotated the cards as a group through each player as the round progressed as you describe, but at the very end, each player got their own card to triple check... even handed it off for double-checking with other players, but ultimately you turned in YOUR OWN card. Nobody to blame but that guy in the mirror for any mistake.

Hey, if it's required that the player turns in his own card, I'd be all for it since it really isn't all that different from requiring the group to turn in a single card together. The only thing is that letting players walk off the course with their own card does open the door to potential cheating.

 

[DavidSauls]

I guess my point of view is that if it truly is an inconvenience to walk the card to tournament central, why should only one player be burdened with it? Because he happened to be the last guy with the card in hand when everyone else scattered? Because he's too nice a guy to suggest someone else take it instead? Or my personal favorite, because he was the first player listed for that group and had already had the responsibility of bringing the card from tourney central? Seems to me the fair thing would be to have everyone take the walk.

That's a fair point. Often, in my experience, one or more players are headed by to HQ, one or more players are not. Yeah, if no one was planning to go there, someone bears the burden and that's unfair. If the parking lot is near HQ, chances are everyone is going there, and it's no issue.

I still think it's overkill. Forcing the entire group to turn in the card would inconvenience, however greatly or slightly, hundreds of people for every one problem that it would solve. I can only remember a couple of times, as TD, assistant TD, or player, that I've encountered a card not being returned, and none in which the card was changed. Hardly an issue crying out for a new rule.

 

[keith johnson]

Hmmm... at The Memorial and AmWorlds we rotated the cards as a group through each player as the round progressed as you describe, but at the very end, each player got their own card to triple check... even handed it off for double-checking with other players, but ultimately you turned in YOUR OWN card. Nobody to blame but that guy in the mirror for any mistake.

At the Memorial for a few years starting in 2010 (haven't played last 2 so it may have changed back) the ENTIRE GROUP had to be there together to turn the cards in (they even had chairs for all 4 to sit) and if they weren't all together it was the same as nobody being there as they wouldn't accept the cards without EVERYONE there.

 

[DavidSauls]

NT's, Majors, events with big purses and a lot of money on the line, might be a different story.

I'm not sure my bunch of Advanced Grandmasters, at a C-tier playing for an extra $4 worth of merchandise, need bother.

 

[JC17393]

At the Memorial for a few years starting in 2010 (haven't played last 2 so it may have changed back) the ENTIRE GROUP had to be there together to turn the cards in (they even had chairs for all 4 to sit) and if they weren't all together it was the same as nobody being there as they wouldn't accept the cards without EVERYONE there.

That's often the case with tee time events, and it's easy to execute because that tent/office/area is usually near the last green. I have my doubts that it is still the policy though, but that's only based on the Schusterick incident last year. Seems like if they had to all go to the scoring area and sit down to total or double check the numbers, Will would have noticed his card wasn't totaled and fixed it. As I recall, he handed his card off to someone else to turn in so he could do his DGP.tv interview.

 

[John Rock]

Can a TD require each player to sign a separate sheet of paper after each round with his/her score? It could even be a large whiteboard or something similar. Announce it at the player's meeting and make it an auto DQ if no sig with score after a round.

 

[PhattD]

As I TD, my answer is, "Why not?". No one's yet told me the rest of the group ran off with the card and wouldn't let him look at it.

I was in a tournament where our final hole on the round was right by tourney central and I was the last to putt out. Not only did they not wait for me to look at the card but they were already at tourney central turning the card in by the time I finished putting. I had to run up to the TD and tell him I hadn't checked my score yet. Technically if my score had been wrong I would have been assessed a two stroke penalty. I don't know if signing the card is the right mechanism but I'd like to have some course of action to take if my cardmates turn in an incorrect card without giving me an opportunity to look it over. Even if it's just a time limit where you can get the card back from the TD and check your score if someone else turned it in.

 

[PhattD]

JC, afraid you're wrong on what will likely happen despite the merit of your argument. That logic got us where we are now without media evidence being allowed despite the fact that the RC seemed unanimous in support, just not that Board. The weakness with your argument is similar to the weakness in our current rules calls which rely on consistent observation by humans for rules infractions and actually calling them. Allowing random media evidence may be randomly available but in essence patches some of the lack of calling infractions that already occurs including the randomness of whether a spectator or spotter is observing a hole for a full round. Allowing media evidence is still not ideal, just better.

The only area where I don't expect media evidence to be allowed as I've mentioned before is for timed calls such as foot faults and stance violations or 30 seconds to throw or even 3 minutes for lost disc search.

The problem with your argument, Chuck, is that the media coverage isn't random. It concentrates on the top players/cards, which is basically the core of JC's argument as I read it.

 

[JC17393]

I was in a tournament where our final hole on the round was right by tourney central and I was the last to putt out. Not only did they not wait for me to look at the card but they were already at tourney central turning the card in by the time I finished putting. I had to run up to the TD and tell him I hadn't checked my score yet. Technically if my score had been wrong I would have been assessed a two stroke penalty. I don't know if signing the card is the right mechanism but I'd like to have some course of action to take if my cardmates turn in an incorrect card without giving me an opportunity to look it over. Even if it's just a time limit where you can get the card back from the TD and check your score if someone else turned it in.

Forget the possibility of your score being wrong, how did they even have a total score for you if you hadn't putted out yet? I assume it was essentially a drop-in so they were giving it to you, but crazy things happen even on drop-ins. They shouldn't be assuming anything. I know I'd have been ripped in your position and definitely would have let them know it.

I don't know what course of action you could be given, but I would hope in that scenario the TD is willing to listen, especially if he's not even had a chance to look at the card yet. Time limits are sketchy because that would basically mean that even though the card is in, it's not really IN until the time limit expires. Too much to keep track of, really.

 

[NOStheBOSS]

That's really the best solution. Give each player a card, have the players keep each others' scores (similar to golf, two pairs keep each others' scores so no cheating) and then you have to turn in your own card personally.

 

[Cgkdisc]

At Am Nats, it's round robin scoring where A keeps B's score, B keeps C's score, C keeps D's score and D keeps A's score. Plus there's a place on the card to keep your score to cross check.

 

[mashnut]

At Am Nats, it's round robin scoring where A keeps B's score, B keeps C's score, C keeps D's score and D keeps A's score. Plus there's a place on the card to keep your score to cross check.

If you're going to go that far, you might as well just have every player keep a full card, it's probably not any more paper and it's not any more time since you're all announcing your scores and each one is getting written down anyway.

 

[Cgkdisc]

It's nicer the way they have it at Am Nats (than having a separate card for all scores) because all three of a player's rounds are together on the same card and the scratch area where you can track your own score is optional inside the folding card. It helps there are virtually no OBs on Am Nats course so no space taken up on the card with hole-by-hole rules.

 

[JC17393]

If you're going to go that far, you might as well just have every player keep a full card, it's probably not any more paper and it's not any more time since you're all announcing your scores and each one is getting written down anyway.

Agreed.

Having played Am Nats with that scoring procedure, I can say that what ended up happening was Player B tended to only be concerned with what Player A was scoring since he had Player A's card, and Player C with B's score, and so on. There was less verification by the whole group when it came to scores.

I think the idea comes from ball golf, where groupings in tournament play tend to be two or three players at most. So exchanging cards and keeping score for your playing partner is a bit more intuitive and all encompassing. Since we play in groups of 3-5, it makes more sense to me for everyone to be responsible for everyone else's scores.

 

[Discette]

Strange but true!

It appears the OP of this thread, Jeff Harris (PDGA 34207 & 60630), played in yet another PDGA event last weekend while under suspension.


http://www.pdga.com/tour/event/16907


I gave him the benefit of the doubt for "Playing While Suspended" in February when he said he wasn't aware that he was suspended or that a player could not have two PDGA numbers. But he has known since April 10, 2014 that he is under suspension until all back fees are paid.

Why would he think it was OK to play in another PDGA event while on suspension?


Both Jeff's show on the Disciplinary Actions List:

http://www.pdga.com/files/Current%20Disciplinary%20Actions%205-1-14.pdf



And for those not fully up on the story: http://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=104099 The action gets started at post #154.



Mind=Blown!

 

[Countchunkula]

Crazy. I wonder why the PDGA site doesn't have an * next to his name (or something similar) to make it obvious that he's suspended. Maybe because no one else tries to do this?

 

[Harrishabitat]

I have spoken with the PDGA including the person at the very top. All of this has been communicated with them. Please feel free to "assume" anything that you would like to. I have been in communication with them since the very first moment this all came to light and have given them all of the information as well as filed an official appeal letter. It honestly baffles me why some people have such a strange fascination with what other people do.

 

[WhiteyBear]

Crazy. I wonder why the PDGA site doesn't have an * next to his name (or something similar) to make it obvious that he's suspended. Maybe because no one else tries to do this?

Welcome to the longer ban I guess....they'll find out soon.

And then he'll either decide to not play, or join under a new number.