[Innova] Discing down from the Wraith

[Jay dot Humps]

Both of mine are the opto. I really think the opto plastic is great. It's kind of like a grippier champ plastic. I got both Strikers right when they came out so I don't know if they're first run or what. Is that other plastic like Star or ESP?

 

[Posey Ching]

it's kind of like star, but I think it's a little different. maybe a little more slick than the star. pretty hard to explain. i thought the opto seemed like grippy champion too. for some reason i felt that i had to have the GL because it cost an extra buck haha. also, i thought the GL might be easier to sell if I end up not liking it. maybe you'll want to buy it haha

#15 will be a good test for straightness to say the least. "the hall of trees"

 

[garublador]

A Teebird is perfect depending on how long you have been playing. Personally, since you aren't throwing extremely long distance yet, I'd have to recommend something along the lines of a Leopard or Cheetah, which is a bit less stable than the Teebird, but both can still be thrown for well over 300' with the proper technique. The reason you should invest in those two fairway drivers over the Teebird is that the Teebird is still a pretty stable disc, and will mask certain bad habits (OAT, etc) that you may have. And because it hides these problems, you'll continue throwing with the same technique as you currently have, and subsequently not increase your distance much in the mean time.

The Leopard and Cheetah be able to give you more insight into what you can change/improve upon to make your drives longer and more consistent since they are more responsive to bad technique than a more stable/overstable disc. Throw these instead of your Teebird, and learn how to throw them well. Then, once you are consistent with them (good accuracy and precision; 300' or greater drives; little to no "whoops" pop-fly shots, etc.), break out the faster discs such as a Teebird, Sidewinder, Valkyrie, or other slightly faster drivers.

One of the best things that you can do though, and this may sound strange, is learn how to drive with a putter. A putter will be the most responsive disc (except for insanely overstable putters such as the Pig and Zone) you can drive with that can help visualize your flaws and aid you in improve your game. Find a Wizard, Magic, Aviar, or whatever you use to putt, go out to a field and start driving with them. If they turn and burn hard right, you've got OAT issues, etc. They are the master of diagnosing driving illnesses.

Last but not least (actually, do this prior to throwing another drive).... watch some of the YouTube videos of driving technique. There are a couple that I recommend to everyone; More Snap 1 and 2, and the Dan Beto Driving Tips and Technique. These will help your drives more than anything else, especially when paired with a fairway driver that you can adequately handle.

This is great advice. My favorite drivers (putters and mids are necessary, too) are the Polaris LS and DX Cheetah for throwing less than 320' or so. After that the D Cyclone and DX Gazelle are prefect.

 

[Albatross]

depending on what weight you're wraith was, I would recommend an elite z Surge SS. My surge is 166, which is 2 grams lighter than my star wraith. It flies on a straight line, with less power required than my wraith did. If I throw with full power my surge will fly even farther than my wraith did!

 

[Can'tPutt]

Thanks for all the replies. I think I will stick with my TeeBird, maybe pick up a star or a champ to go with my dx.

 

[Jay dot Humps]

STRIKER!

 

[TxDiscGolfBoy]

I've always thought that if a Wraith is to much, just down to a Valkyrie. Little more turn than a Beast will give you, which is favorable if you're only pushing around 300 with a Wraith.

When distance, power, snap and all that improve, the Valkyrie makes a great addition to any bag as a disc that can be easily shaped in the air.

 

[WillACarpenter]

If you generate enough snap but not enough speed, you need a 150 class DX wraith. They loooove some snap.

Try it. Best 8 bucks you'll ever spend.

\/\/

 

[prerube]

I forgot to add this....

What I was describing earlier is the Speed 7 Challenge. Don't throw anything faster than a Speed 7 disc (or an equivalent speed disc from a manufacturer other than Innova) until you can reliably and accurately throw a Teebird 325-350' every time you step up to the teebox. You don't need anything faster than a Teebird to reach that distance. Once you can do that, break out the faster drivers gradually.

I disagree, I hear this all the time. I can't throw anything much over 300 ft, but I can get my wraith to do what ever I want it to do. I have 4 and love them. The amount of spin imparted on the disc is more important for the flight pattern than the distance you throw. I have talked to Biscoe about this too and he hates when people say because he can't throw a certain distance he shouldn't throw a boss, when he can beat everyone who says that.

 

[garublador]

I disagree, I hear this all the time. I can't throw anything much over 300 ft, but I can get my wraith to do what ever I want it to do.

So as long as you don't mind throwing under 300', then using fast discs is OK?

The point of throwing slower discs isn't to improve your score in the short term. The point is to make technique improvment easier. If you like throwing Wraiths for everything, go right ahead. That doesn't change that it will be easier and faster to use slower dics to learn to throw farther with more control.

 

[toothyfish]

Thanks for all the replies. I think I will stick with my TeeBird, maybe pick up a star or a champ to go with my dx.

Good choice. When I came to the realization that I didn't have the form for the big toys, the Teebird became my primary distance driver. As you improve, not only will you see more distance, but your ability to control it will improve.

I would also recommend a disc like the Cyclone, DX Gazelle, or DX Cheetah. The Teebird will make a nice longer, straighter driver for you, and one of these others will be good for learning to throw different types of turning shots.

 

[zenbot]

Are you trying to replace the Wraith's line with something slower?

 

[Apothecary]

So as long as you don't mind throwing under 300', then using fast discs is OK?

The point of throwing slower discs isn't to improve your score in the short term. The point is to make technique improvment easier. If you like throwing Wraiths for everything, go right ahead. That doesn't change that it will be easier and faster to use slower dics to learn to throw farther with more control.

 

[prerube]

So as long as you don't mind throwing under 300', then using fast discs is OK?

The point of throwing slower discs isn't to improve your score in the short term. The point is to make technique improvment easier. If you like throwing Wraiths for everything, go right ahead. That doesn't change that it will be easier and faster to use slower dics to learn to throw farther with more control.

My wraith goes as far as everything else, but my point is that people with great skill (like Biscoe, not me) but not a lot of power can throw a boss. Just because you can't throw 300 doesn't mean you can't throw a higher speed disc as long as you can get it to do what you want. I will not be going out to buy a Nuke or Katana anytime soon, but If you are comfortable with the wraith people shouldn't tell you not to throw it because you can't hit X distance. I have leopards and valkyries, but they are not as consistent as my wriath.

 

[garublador]

but If you are comfortable with the wraith people shouldn't tell you not to throw it because you can't hit X distance.

People who are comfortable with how they're throwing, by definition, don't come around asking questions on how to improve. The advice is not for them becuse they don't want advice. The advice is for people looking to improve.

 

[volmed10]

So as long as you don't mind throwing under 300', then using fast discs is OK?

The point of throwing slower discs isn't to improve your score in the short term. The point is to make technique improvment easier. If you like throwing Wraiths for everything, go right ahead. That doesn't change that it will be easier and faster to use slower dics to learn to throw farther with more control.

Exactly.

From the OP:

but I get the feeling they're a little too much disc for me and that I have to give it a little OAT to get a full flight.

He isn't asking for opinions about what disc to use that would allow him to do whatever he wants it to do, but rather a disc that he personally can "get a full flight" from without imparting too much OAT. In other words, he is asking about a disc that, for his experience and power, he can throw correctly for the max distance of said disc. If he is only throwing the Wraith 300', that is absolutely not the full flight potential of this disc. It is more around 400-450', or more for the Wraith. But, a Leopard, TL, Cheetah, etc is more applicable for his current potential; not his future potential, but current.

In addition, throwing these slower discs just as garublador stated, will allow him to become better faster, and ultimately train himself to throw faster discs to their "FULL FLIGHT" potential with proper technique. I agree with you, prerube, that the amount of snap imparted upon the disc is much more important than the speed of the arm. But to acquire maximum distance, you need to have both. That is why I can throw my TB to 375-400' and my S-PD to 440' or so without a whole lot of arm speed, because I snap the hell out of every disc that I throw (by pinching as hard as possible with my thumb and index finger, and accelerating through the drive as taught in the More Snap vids). I am a bigger guy, but the people that I know, including the pros that I play with regularly, always state that they can't believe how smooth of a driving motion I have and it appears that I'm not putting anything into the throw. If I start throwing with too much arm speed, my timing suffers and ultimately the drive fails. This is also why I suggested watching the More Snap videos, because Bradley Walker (the narrator of the videos) states how important that snap is compared to arm speed.

If the Wraith worked for him, and he also stated that he was using it for different types of lines (like you do), etc., I'd have suggested a Surge, PD, etc. But the fact of the matter is that wasn't what he was asking. For a "full flight" disc, he'll definitely need to go slower, and I commend him for having the maturity and humilty to not let his ego in the way so that he could realize this on his own and ask his question on this forum.

 

[prerube]

Exactly.

From the OP:



He isn't asking for opinions about what disc to use that would allow him to do whatever he wants it to do, but rather a disc that he personally can "get a full flight" from without imparting too much OAT. In other words, he is asking about a disc that, for his experience and power, he can throw correctly for the max distance of said disc. If he is only throwing the Wraith 300', that is absolutely not the full flight potential of this disc. It is more around 400-450', or more for the Wraith. But, a Leopard, TL, Cheetah, etc is more applicable for his current potential; not his future potential, but current.

In addition, throwing these slower discs just as garublador stated, will allow him to become better faster, and ultimately train himself to throw faster discs to their "FULL FLIGHT" potential with proper technique. I agree with you, prerube, that the amount of snap imparted upon the disc is much more important than the speed of the arm. But to acquire maximum distance, you need to have both. That is why I can throw my TB to 375-400' and my S-PD to 440' or so without a whole lot of arm speed, because I snap the hell out of every disc that I throw (by pinching as hard as possible with my thumb and index finger, and accelerating through the drive as taught in the More Snap vids). I am a bigger guy, but the people that I know, including the pros that I play with regularly, always state that they can't believe how smooth of a driving motion I have and it appears that I'm not putting anything into the throw. If I start throwing with too much arm speed, my timing suffers and ultimately the drive fails. This is also why I suggested watching the More Snap videos, because Bradley Walker (the narrator of the videos) states how important that snap is compared to arm speed.

If the Wraith worked for him, and he also stated that he was using it for different types of lines (like you do), etc., I'd have suggested a Surge, PD, etc. But the fact of the matter is that wasn't what he was asking. For a "full flight" disc, he'll definitely need to go slower, and I commend him for having the maturity and humilty to not let his ego in the way so that he could realize this on his own and ask his question on this forum.

He throws the ProDestroyer, I gave him a Teebird because I knew this would be the advice he would be given and he shanked the crap out of it. I understand how discing down is good advice, I am just saying that hate whern people tell others they can not throw a particular model because they don't have the distance down.

*edit (sorry I was talking about the guy who throws 500ft+, not the original poster for the Teebird reference)

 

[volmed10]

My wraith goes as far as everything else, but my point is that people with great skill (like Biscoe, not me) but not a lot of power can throw a boss. Just because you can't throw 300 doesn't mean you can't throw a higher speed disc as long as you can get it to do what you want. I will not be going out to buy a Nuke or Katana anytime soon, but If you are comfortable with the wraith people shouldn't tell you not to throw it because you can't hit X distance. I have leopards and valkyries, but they are not as consistent as my wriath.

I already answered this, but I'll try to restate it a little more clearly. The OP isn't asking for a suggestion for a disc that will let him do what he wants to, but rather a disc that will aloow his to get better distance. He already stated that he is not throwing the Wraith correctly (referring to his OAT statement), but would like to reach a farther distance with his drives. So, he needs to disc-down to a driver that will be more responsive and allow him to learn correct form by visualizing errors in his technique. These discs will be Leopards, Cheetahs, and putters. Once he masters these discs for driving with great technique, he'll likely be able to crush a Wraith or faster discs.

Yes, great players such as Biscoe will use a Boss for certain shots, but he also knows what he is doing with this disc, and also realizes that he isn't trying to get crazy distance either. I'll use certain discs that are faster than their intended purpose for the exact same thing, i.e. throwing a Champ Banshee RHBH 100' upshot into a 20 mph headwind, because I know it will handle the wind better than any other disc I carry even though I know I can get it out to 350' and it's main purposes are headwind drives and FH. I can make it do what I want it to do. But, for max distance, I'll throw a disc that I know I can handle and also that I know I can make perform at it's maximum potential, such as a TB, PD, etc.

 

[prerube]

I understand your advice (both of you) and for this case (and in 95% of other cases) your advice is correct, however I just don't like the blanket statement that you have to throw xxx distance to throw a particular disc.

and if this guy wants help with his form my best advice is always "listen to garublador"

 

[garublador]

however I just don't like the blanket statement that you have to throw xxx distance to throw a particular disc.

Just remember that the context for that statement is always that the person wants to improve. Once you're done improving, finding the stuff that lowers your score is a good idea.

and if this guy wants help with his form my best advice is always "listen to garublador"

Thanks!