Discipline--Where do you draw the line?

[#19325]

Been discussion after discussion about Bradley Williams. First 6 month suspension was for kicking over a basket.

Look at minute mark 10:10 on.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nb0iUFh9FJc

And here at 15:08
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZfoeSz3zO0k

What's the difference between slamming a permanent basket and kicking a temp basket? It's time to get some consistency with the discipline policy.

 

[Aim For The Chains]

Eh. Those are just stupid.

Not nearly the same as kicking over a basket...

 

[#19325]

Eh. Those are just stupid.

Not nearly the same as kicking over a basket...

That is where you and I disagree. Had either of those baskets been portable baskets they would have fallen over and the internet would be talking about it. There is no difference from kicking a basket and punching or slamming it.

 

[lyleoross]

That is where you and I disagree. Had either of those baskets been portable baskets they would have fallen over and the internet would be talking about it. There is no difference from kicking a basket and punching or slamming it.

I'm gonna have to split the difference, but I'm with chains. Rearing back and kicking a basket over isn't the same as slamming the chains because your disc popped out. However, I've not seen or read a description of what happened with BW. Maybe he went, "oh pooh," and lightly tapped the base of the basket with his foot. It only fell over because it wasn't mounted.

I do think Jerm should have given Nikko a courtesy warning. I'd be mad to, but that's an, Oh fudge, moment, not a wrestle with the chains moment.

Context is everything, was a complaint filed? What did the DC get in the complaint? That matters. If someone kicks the base of a basket, and it's unbalance and falls over, I'm going to give him a warning. If he rears back, kicks the basket section of the device, and knocks it rolling, I'm going to punish him.

 

[curt]

I think there's a clear distinction here, but it doesn't have anything to do with losing your temper or getting angry. Knocking over s basket alters the course, and the rest of the players now have to play a different course than the previous players. Even if the difference is only an inch or two, it is different. That can't be tolerated.

Also, there's no way that Nikkos actions would have knocked over a temporary basket.

 

[Aim For The Chains]

That is where you and I disagree. Had either of those baskets been portable baskets they would have fallen over and the internet would be talking about it. There is no difference from kicking a basket and punching or slamming it.

Maybe a portable costco basket? Any decent version would be way too heavy lulz. He didnt even really "punch or slam" the basket. The disc was holed out in those ways, sort of... but he didn't uppercut the damn basket or check it like a hockey player.

 

[@iDiscGolf]

Hillarious

 

[DavidSauls]

What's the difference between slamming a permanent basket and kicking a temp basket? It's time to get some consistency with the discipline policy.

Not knowing the specific issues, or particularly caring, but I'd think an angry player knows whether a basket it fixed (unlikekly to be effected by his rage) and portable (might fall or get out of balance).

Seems like a false equivalence to me.

Nor am I convinced that we need a code of laws, listing every conceivable violation and specifying exact penalties for them. Apparently 99% of players manage to get through their disc golf careers without it ever affecting them. the other 1% can live with the inconsistency.

 

[Three Putt]

There is still a pretty big "get Nikko" camp out there that was REALLY disappointed that the guy who got a long PDGA suspension was somebody other than Nikko. His routine has been irritating people for years. I'm not sure of the motivation of the OP or where he would like to see this go, but it would not be surprising to see the crosshairs aimed at Nikko now that the suspension bubble has been burst.

 

[THUGNIFICENT763]

Whenever I get chain lashed, I step back about 20 paces, drop my head like a raging bull, and run headlong towards the basket. At the last second, I load up my lower extremities and launch myself at the basket like a human missile. It works. Gotta keep those baskets in check, ya know?

 

[klmdg]

There is still a pretty big "get Nikko" camp out there that was REALLY disappointed that the guy who got a long PDGA suspension was somebody other than Nikko. His routine has been irritating people for years. I'm not sure of the motivation of the OP or where he would like to see this go, but it would not be surprising to see the crosshairs aimed at Nikko now that the suspension bubble has been burst.

:clap:

I don't know either guy, but from what I've read and seen, there seems to be a massive behavioural difference between the two.

If I had a choice to play a round with either one, I would chose Nikko, and it's not even close.

 

[Doofenshmirtz]

Had either of those baskets been portable baskets they would have fallen over and the internet would be talking about it.

So you are arguing about the alternate universe where the basket was actually a portable one?

 

[Brodysseus]

_____________________

^Right there.

 

[TAFL]

I reckon anybody who can't see the egregious differences between the BW basket incident and Nikko banging chains in frsutration shouldn't be engaged in discussions as to what warrants discipline and what doesn't.

Unless, of course, they make it clear they're speaking of things happening in an alternate universe.

 

[Nemmers]

You can't govern emotion, so why try. People get frustrated on both ends of the spectrum. McBeast does, I do; it happens. A call for a courtesy violation might be in order sometimes, but you can't control frustration.

With regards to your second link, it's pretty basic. Sucks-doesn't suck, Nikko. Nice bogey.

 

[ru4por]

You can't govern emotion, so why try. People get frustrated on both ends of the spectrum. McBeast does, I do; it happens. A call for a courtesy violation might be in order sometimes, but you can't control frustration.

With regards to your second link, it's pretty basic. Sucks-doesn't suck, Nikko. Nice bogey.

Agree. The issue is not with the discipline, but the adolescent behavior of both. There is a considerable difference between the two actions though, for sure.

 

[kevdiv48]

Whenever I get chain lashed, I step back about 20 paces, drop my head like a raging bull, and run headlong towards the basket. At the last second, I load up my lower extremities and launch myself at the basket like a human missile. It works. Gotta keep those baskets in check, ya know?

This is the image that comes to mind.

 

[Askar]

You can hear BigJerm in the background telling Nikko to stop that in the USDGC coverage. After that Nikko actually calms down.

 

[m_Krakov]

Whenever I get chain lashed, I step back about 20 paces, drop my head like a raging bull, and run headlong towards the basket. At the last second, I load up my lower extremities and launch myself at the basket like a human missile. It works. Gotta keep those baskets in check, ya know?

I always seem to make my second-chance putts too, it's like it's easier when you're not thinking too hard.

 

[Lazerface]

You can't govern emotion, so why try. People get frustrated on both ends of the spectrum. McBeast does, I do; it happens. A call for a courtesy violation might be in order sometimes, but you can't control frustration.

^^^^^^^
This.