Driving practice: TBirds or Valks?

[cdavid74]

I throw similar distances as you and have worked hard on my form this year. A 175 champ valk is my main driver. I used a 160 dx valk for field work a lot. The light weight allowed me to see flaws more easily. Using the same mold as I use on the course translated to my release being consistent in the field and on the course.

So in essence my advice is to practice with lighter, cheaper versions of what you use on the course.

 

[bholy08]

personally i would pick dx eagles over either the valk or tbird...same low speed as tbird but not as stable

 

[sidewinder22]

this also, is great advice

Eh...Cheetahs and Gazelles > Teebirds, Leopards, Valks for someone throwing 300' with Katanas.

 

[strive]

polecat or an ultrastar... throw nothing else until you are hitting 550'... best way to learn IMHO

WORD!

 

[dazedconfuzed1]

^^^^^smoking crack...too much Waco.

 

[strive]

^^^^^smoking crack...too much Waco.

From the Forum Guidelines:

1) No illegal drug discussion.

Take it back!

 

[strive]

Really though... find something slow and truly understable (not beat) and work on throwing smooth hyzer releases. cheetah/comet/etc

 

[craftsman]

Take that beat rock and learn to make it hold the sweeping hyzer.

Ill aslo echo the clone/gazelle posts.

 

[dazedconfuzed1]

ok..no smoking crack on the forums...comets are ok in my book.

 

[pchitti]

^^^^^smoking crack...too much Waco.

From the Forum Guidelines:

1) No illegal drug discussion.

Take it back!

ROFL

Im one of the take your mids or putters out for practice right now. You have plenty of time to throw far, work on form and accuracy now.

That same practice has allowed me to out throw most people with a teebird vs there nuke, vulcan, destoyers, ect... But I still cant hang with the big boys throwing frackin sidewinders 400+ but my orcs are getting there quickly.

 

[cajual]

cheetah/comet/etc

This ^ -- I kept waiting for someone to mention Comets. I find that a Comet will truly open your eyes to your form flaws. It requires a _very_ smooth release. You will also find that heavier discs are more form forgiving.

The general idea is going to be slower, less stable, lighter plastic. Best advice possible IMO is record some good quality side/rear footage of your throw and post it both here and over at DGR and get some expert analysis.

You can throw till your blue in the face and never find the actual problem, you may even create worse form attempting to correct what YOU believe the problem is when in actuality it is something much different.

Thats just my 2c though.

 

[Sid the Kid]

Comets are great for revealing form flaws, but are pretty much junk in the wind. OP's talking about field practice, most fields I know of are prone to having more wind than the local disc golf course.

For field practice you will likely want something that is versatile and can handle a little wind. DX Gazelles or ESP Cyclones are great for this, if you want a little faster of a disc go for DX Eagle X.

Keep working at it man, if you can get a Gazelle or Cyclone out to 350' you should be able to get your Katana 400'+. Also the Gaz and Clone will be great turnover discs after sufficient wear.

 

[cajual]

Comets are great for revealing form flaws, but are pretty much junk in the wind.

There are two sides to every coin, and throwing plastic that doesn't help reveal your flaws is just as counter intuitive as throwing discs that are unpredictable in your current environment.

In my opinion, and from my experience drivers create a certain mind set; Rip it!

If the purpose of field practice is to progress then the tendency to become 'jerky' in an attempt to 'Rip it' will ultimately become just as counter productive.

I find when I step onto the field with only putters and mids I take a more thorough approach and actually tune minor flaws out of my throw. I have also found in my years of teaching form, specifically in martial arts, that most individuals do not have the mental discipline to control their urge to have immediate gratification.

This generally is rarely achieved throwing mids at 80-90% power. My personal belief is that a naturally athletic individual will 'get it' and that most of their ability to execute lies in mental control and preparation. Consider the idea of a 'lucky' disc.

*Edit; I should note that in my younger more flexible years I placed and competed in both state and national level Tae Kwon Do forms and trained up to my 3rd degree under traditional Korean instructors from Yongin University in Seoul Korea. All of this was supplemented by several years of both select Soccer and Gymnastics.

 

[Smigles]

Totaly different discs -.-

Teebird is too stable. Valky is too fast.

For form training, you want either comets ( midrange ) or Leopards ( fairway driver ). Stay away from anything faster or more stable. And take light weght discs.

300 feet with a driver can mean anything. You could totaly be throwing with your arm.

Go buy 10 X comets and practice till you can throw them on a 330 foot hyzer. Then go back to your drivers.

 

[jobwilson]

I get my most consistent BH D from CE Valk, and a 1.13 Aurora LS.

The LS is becoming my goto driver for HYZER flipping. The Valk is my HYZER disc.

The moral: old slow plastic FTW.

 

[Oklahyzer]

I"m going to toss in a vote for a Leopard. Because of the distances you're getting now, and because you said you're flipping some of those (and the Shark gets wonky), it's clear that improving your form is what you need to do if you want to gain distance. Valk is an excellent disc, and that or a Sidewinder might be the best right now for your distance driver, but they're probably going to match your Katana at the moment, so if you can control your Katana decently you may as well keep using that.

That said, pick up a Leopard in good plastic. Use that and your Squall for a bit. Both of those will get you out to 300' with just a little work, and both can go farther eventually. The Leopard is going to teach you more about your form because if you start turning it without intending to (at your current power level), you'll know that you've got some heavy OAT going on. When you can hyzer flip your Leopard, then you're ready to step up to some faster discs and you'll definitely be seeing a lot more distance (from all discs).

Another option might be the TL, but I'm thinking the Leopard and Squall will get you on the road to improvement faster, and they're both capable of longer distances than you're currently reaching with those much faster drivers. A few years back, I was in almost this same exact situation - same distances and same discs! lol.

 

[garublador]

There are two sides to every coin, and throwing plastic that doesn't help reveal your flaws is just as counter intuitive as throwing discs that are unpredictable in your current environment.

In my opinion, and from my experience drivers create a certain mind set; Rip it!

If the purpose of field practice is to progress then the tendency to become 'jerky' in an attempt to 'Rip it' will ultimately become just as counter productive.

This is exactly why I recommend the discs that I do. The difference between a 300' Wizard throw and a 400' Teebird throw is a slightly different feeling grip and aiming higher with the Wizard. The power and mechanics behind both throws are pretty much the same. In other words, if you're throwing your drivers differently than your putters and mids then you're probably barking up the wrong tree.

Putters do a great job of requiring clean power and a high throw but don't show nose angle issues.

"Workable" fairway speed drivers do a great job of requiring some nose down but don't show OAT as well.

Mids are right in between the two.

If you use all three you'll get a great spectrum of just how good/bad your nose angle and OAT issues are. Using only one generally won't give you the whole story.

Distance drivers do a great job of requiring nose down but don't show OAT. In fact, they can do such a bad job of showing OAT that you can actually cover up nose angle issues with OAT so they're worse than not giving you enough information. They can actually give inaccurate information about what you really need to work on. This is why they are not recommended for technique improvement until a certain proficiency is obtained.

 

[d.ude]

I can't thank you guys enough for your insights. Truly appreciated.

I am pretty sure I am going to pick up 4-5 Leopard DXs. What weights? I'm thinking in the 160-170 weights. Or should I get them all in the same weight? I will probably buy a Champ Leopard as well.

Just to clarify - a hyzer flip starts out as a hyzer, then becomes unstable, wobbles and flips to annie, right? I have a 150 leopard DX, and this is usually what happens when I throw it. Does this mean there's too much OAT going on, too much speed for the disc, or what?

Also, when I drive my putters with (what I aim for as) a flat release, they ever so slightly annie for half the drive, then level out, then hyzer fade at the very end. Is this a prognosis?

I have long arms (6'6'' wingspan) and I need to figure out where my elbow/disc should be on my chest at which point of my torso rotation. It really feels cluttered sometimes.

 

[lowracks]

DX Leopards are really great discs, but can become flippy very fast. I'd suggest getting at least one premium plastic Leopard to compliment your DX stash. I'm a leopard fan and really love them in star and champion plastic.

 

[The_Dye_Guy]

The eagle-l was a terrible disc for everything but people who needed less eagle, and for helping me with my form.

So I recommend that.