First form check!

[Brychanus]

I think I took the water ski idea too far - so much that it is tending to get me late moving each way in search for that tug between disc and CoG. Will work on this for a bit, thanks

 

[Brychanus]

You are shifting and rotating too late back and forth(really easy to see in x-step). Your front heel should replant more targetward when it goes airborne. Your heel is replanting in same exact place. Firm up your rear leg/knee in backswing from the start and start dropping forward with knee extended and rotating back earlier with the forward stride. You have this little down and up jump motion in the backswing so you move up and back instead of forward and down. Rotate more horizontally(which should help you rotate earlier), you go too vertical which puts some kind of hitch in your giddy up.
View attachment 332340

I worked on this. I fixed some of the sequencing but I continue to have trouble finding ideal posture & space to swing through. Standstills here. Rear of tee was messing around with the "royal coil" again.



X-step improved but w/ shades of the same issues, still not ideal compression:

 

[sidewinder22]

Starting stance looked a bit wide esp on 2.

Turn back more level shoulders.

 

[Brychanus]

Starting stance looked a bit wide esp on 2.

Turn back more level shoulders.

Both seeming to help a bit and snap on some shots is starting to increase. Took some pressure of my knee & hip too.

Plateauing a bit again - my body is still getting somewhat in the way in transition. Since I got stuck I also toyed with the pump swing plane & more shoulder dingle but a similar result each time.

Couple side & rear of tee. Thanks man <3

 

[sidewinder22]

Definitely something funky with how you grip/hold the arm/disc.

And looks like rounding/hugging yourself, it starts much earlier in your backswing than in pics when your upper arm collapses.
Your elbow/hand/disc goes much further around your body from top of backswing to release. I keep my arm much wider.

 

[Brychanus]

Definitely something funky with how you grip/hold the arm/disc.

And looks like rounding/hugging yourself, it starts much earlier in your backswing than in pics when your upper arm collapses.
Your elbow/hand/disc goes much further around your body from top of backswing to release. I keep my arm much wider.

View attachment 333218

Looks like the severity of arm collapse is at least partially related to the backswing problem you're showing here.

Maybe I can try to take the entire move/heavy arm more directly away from the target wider from body as I "grab" the doorframe and then shift again more aggressively toward the target away from the frame. Will play with grip options a bit. Thanks!!

 

[Brychanus]

Definitely something funky with how you grip/hold the arm/disc.

And looks like rounding/hugging yourself, it starts much earlier in your backswing than in pics when your upper arm collapses.
Your elbow/hand/disc goes much further around your body from top of backswing to release. I keep my arm much wider.

View attachment 333218

Looks like the severity of arm collapse is at least partially related to the backswing problem you're showing here.

Maybe I can try to take the entire move/heavy arm more directly away from the target wider from body as I "grab" the doorframe and then shift again more aggressively toward the target away from the frame. Will play with grip options a bit. Thanks!!

Yeah it's both backswing and grip.

Ninja edit:
1. I adjusted my backswing wider out from body.
2. I relaxed my backswing wing angle again.
3. I worked on 2 finger grip.

Side and rear. Any better?

 

[Brychanus]

^Trying to figure out how I can get off the rear leg a little better and make the leverage more sideways at the release point. Old cues that came to mind first:

1. Push rear knee slightly more east in shift + transition to swing.
2. Focus on resisting/swinging arm slightly more wide back out from center through the release.

 

[sidewinder22]

1. Start with a little more stagger and stride slightly right/open, but still staggered closed. If you build up enough internal torque in the backswing/stride it should open up into the plant, instead of moving closed like you are. This should also help keep your backswing wider, instead of pinching it off.

2. I'd like to see your arm/disc moving the opposite rotation into the power pocket. Top of backswing wing up, then bring it wing down into power pocket so your thumb comes in closer to chest while elbow goes out.

 

[Brychanus]

1. Start with a little more stagger and stride slightly right/open, but still staggered closed. If you build up enough internal torque in the backswing/stride it should open up into the plant, instead of moving closed like you are. This should also help keep your backswing wider, instead of pinching it off.

2. I'd like to see your arm/disc moving the opposite rotation into the power pocket. Top of backswing wing up, then bring it wing down into power pocket so your thumb comes in closer to chest while elbow goes out.

Neat, I see what you're after.

Did a session, want to check before I get in too deep. Shift is a little easier to change than the arm at first. Couple versions each view:

 

[Brychanus]

This is already starting to work a lot better. Even the follow through looks like it's letting my body flow thru more naturally. I think I need a couple more weeks to clean up the changes but some notes:

1. Backswing and shift from stagger suddenly feels way more natural and easier to control shot-to-shot

2. Need to still be careful about pump and backswing trajectory.

3. Arm action out of backswing definitely going to need a lot of focus to replace the old habit.

4. Did only like 3 x-steps but starting from new stagger stance already seems like my legs get less confused.

Only standstills here, will keep grinding, especially points 2 and 3 above.



You remain a gentleman and a scholar <3

 

[Brychanus]

Back to visualizing for some of the arm action and outside-in plant leg:

2. I'd like to see your arm/disc moving the opposite rotation into the power pocket. Top of backswing wing up, then bring it wing down into power pocket so your thumb comes in closer to chest while elbow goes out.

Sidewinder: not worrying about it too much while developing the new move, but wondering if you get bored since I was thinking about this point & Inside Swing:

Basically my question boils down to "do you think it is ever acceptable for the elbow to go slightly 'through the wall' before the release point?"

In general, I know the idea is to transition the elbow over the toes. That appears to describe most pros. Others like Isaac Robinson or Paige P appear to have the elbow go at least slightly "through the wall" once I correct for their tilted axis.



My own elbow still does not like to stay fully "inside" my plant toe if I aim viewing my posture visual cues correctly.

It seems possible mine will start to improve with the new move as I practice pronating into the pocket more every time more like GG or Simon. I am starting to think that it's fundamentally not crazy to believe that it's hard for me to optimize the move near my CoM due to my anatomy w/ very wide shoulders, short arms, and standing taller, so I thought I'd dig in a little deeper into the concepts here.

Anyway, curious what you think. Thanks man.

 

[sidewinder22]

Back to visualizing for some of the arm action and outside-in plant leg:

Sidewinder: not worrying about it too much while developing the new move, but wondering if you get bored since I was thinking about this point & Inside Swing:

Basically my question boils down to "do you think it is ever acceptable for the elbow to go slightly 'through the wall' before the release point?"

In general, I know the idea is to transition the elbow over the toes. That appears to describe most pros. Others like Isaac Robinson or Paige P appear to have the elbow go at least slightly "through the wall" once I correct for their tilted axis.

View attachment 333504

My own elbow still does not like to stay fully "inside" my plant toe if I aim viewing my posture visual cues correctly.

It seems possible mine will start to improve with the new move as I practice pronating into the pocket more every time more like GG or Simon. I am starting to think that it's fundamentally not crazy to believe that it's hard for me to optimize the move near my CoM due to my anatomy w/ very wide shoulders, short arms, and standing taller, so I thought I'd dig in a little deeper into the concepts here.

Anyway, curious what you think. Thanks man.

I think I said in Inside Drill that the wall is in the way of the elbow and lower arm to swing forward. You should bust through the wall. It's more of a backswing and transition drill.

 

[Brychanus]

I think I said in Inside Drill that the wall is in the way of the elbow and lower arm to swing forward. You should bust through the wall. It's more of a backswing and transition drill.

Oh thank goodness. You did, then I got fixated on the little part where you are showing part of the transition forward with the elbow still tracking the wall (because there's a wall there lol) and thinking about Dingle arm and wanted to make sure I wasn't chasing ghosts again. Thanks

 

[Kjimsern]

You get into weird head tilt/riding bull posture throughout. You want to feel your chin/spine/lower body gliding forward underneath the top of the head.

Your pendulum is out of sync/balance. Note how the arm/disc swings behind as the feet pass back over each other, so everything is in perfect vertical balance when the feet are together.

I had same issue in the past and it has really hurt my neck, i think its the same issue as you have.

Ive fixed it with riding the bull but i get a little neck pain everynow and then.

How did you get better?

Do you recommend stretching?

My head is tipping over a little
But not perfect, any advice?

 

[Brychanus]

I had same issue in the past and it has really hurt my neck, i think its the same issue as you have.

Ive fixed it with riding the bull but i get a little neck pain everynow and then.

How did you get better?

Do you recommend stretching?

My head is tipping over a little
But not perfect, any advice?

Mine still tends to rush ahead sometimes decoupled from the swing & backswing. Eyes often too eager to get to the target and head compensating for being out of balance.

Improving balance and keeping eyes/head more with disc until it gets better again usually helps.

I do also stretch a lot more than I used to including big head circles with my neck relaxed, and stretching my neck out side to side fully.

I also would get more neck kinks when my move had too much rotational shift and not lateral shift. Come to think of it I haven't noticed any neck pain at all since SW last had me focus on grinding the shift again toward the beginning of winter.

Edit: in addition to Seabas head videos, this one really helped me. Watch the whole thing and do/compare the drills. I found that exaggerating and feeling how the head relates to the feet very useful for protecting my neck. I probably had to do it a few hundred times over weeks before I could control it while throwing better. Also helps you make your shift more efficient.

 

[Brychanus]

Putter-only shorties today working on the new changes.

I was getting more into the disc coming out of the pocket for sure, good for an unintentional ~30' more avg distance at the same tempo I'd typically use to reach the pins. I had a comical 60' overshoot on an uphill standstill upshot because I didn't expect that much juice to come through the arm with how slow I was moving lol.

Promising! Will keep grinding 'til the move stabilizes.

 

[Sheep]

I worked on this. I fixed some of the sequencing but I continue to have trouble finding ideal posture & space to swing through. Standstills here. Rear of tee was messing around with the "royal coil" again.



X-step improved but w/ shades of the same issues, still not ideal compression:

I'ma stealthily drop this in here.

I know you've kinda moved to some other things, but was just randomly looking in here. And this image for some reason just really rang through to me the other day really hard in my own game.

Other than that, and I know sidewinder here is a bit more on the front side of helping you.
But your brace looks late.
Like your initiating the upper body and swinging through, then pushing down and back with the brace, and then you over rotate like the AM column on the image.

VS getting into the brace and swinging through.

 

[Brychanus]

I'ma stealthily drop this in here.

I know you've kinda moved to some other things, but was just randomly looking in here. And this image for some reason just really rang through to me the other day really hard in my own game.

Other than that, and I know sidewinder here is a bit more on the front side of helping you.
But your brace looks late.
Like your initiating the upper body and swinging through, then pushing down and back with the brace, and then you over rotate like the AM column on the image.

VS getting into the brace and swinging through.

Hey, thanks man!

Yeah, especially bad back in that video and before. I think what is happening is not getting a complete coil and internal torque in that rear hip, so I have nothing to walk/shift off of at the peak of the backswing. That's also why I tended to lean away and start swinging through early.

Changing how the arm and stride pattern work together from his tips in #1209 made it much easier to find those on the backswing and use it to shift forward while completing the backswing, then the swing starts after the plant without feeling totally out of balance.

I'm going to spend a while working on this because now I can clearly feel the difference & see the effects but it's not reliable coming off the rear side yet, so I can keep putting focus there.

Always open to anything else you or others see, appreciate it!

 

[Brychanus]

Notes to self:

Patterns - on course throws with the new form seem most sensitive to:
1. Backswing integrity and torque at rear hip. Directly related to my arm action and wing angle heading into peak of backswing.
2. Initial half or full pump involving wrist action working much better than elbow only pump.
3. Release speed and angle seem directly related to thumb pressure on disc late/near release point

Performance:
-standstills rapidly becoming more powerful and accurate
-low line control drives much easier, especially when I nail the backswing
- rushing/need to slow down a bit on distance lines to nail release point