Foot Faults at World by Stokely

[ViolaBouquet]

Also, I was called for a foot fault at DGLO a couple years ago and it was legit, but I was at a stand still and honestly I was more pissed that my group decided to just wait for me to throw instead of saying something like "watch your feet" before I tossed.

 

[ian.]

Fair enough, just eliminate the jump putt.

hey now Streets... you leave my jump putts alone!!!

 

[Stardoggy]

Also, I was called for a foot fault at DGLO a couple years ago and it was legit, but I was at a stand still and honestly I was more pissed that my group decided to just wait for me to throw instead of saying something like "watch your feet" before I tossed.

It's not up to the group to make sure your mechanics are proper.

 

[Steve West]

Also, I was called for a foot fault at DGLO a couple years ago and it was legit, but I was at a stand still and honestly I was more pissed that my group decided to just wait for me to throw instead of saying something like "watch your feet" before I tossed.

They probably didn't want to distract you during your throw by saying something. I've bit my tongue several times when I've seen someone lining up wrong. Often, they make a last-second move to get in the right position. If I had said something, it would have been both useless and distracting.

 

[BionicRib]

You are voting to eliminate the run up on all shots? I hope you are being that extreme for dramatic effect and not as a real solution, lol.

Absolutely....stand and deliver would eliminate a lot of bs IMO. I doubt it would happen as I'm sure a lot of people would argue that it would take the fun out of it. Newsflash....you don't need a run up to throw far

 

[deadbody]

Absolutely....stand and deliver would eliminate a lot of bs IMO. I doubt it would happen as I'm sure a lot of people would argue that it would take the fun out of it. Newsflash....you don't need a run up to throw far

But without a huge run up I can only get my boss like 100'.

If I take a 237 step run up I can get that baby out to max distance. 135'

 

[BionicRib]

Also, I was called for a foot fault at DGLO a couple years ago and it was legit, but I was at a stand still and honestly I was more pissed that my group decided to just wait for me to throw instead of saying something like "watch your feet" before I tossed.

If you're in that kind of group...and you're taking a stance that you're not 100% sure of then take your stance and ask if you're good or not before you throw

 

[grotto]

Also, I was called for a foot fault at DGLO a couple years ago and it was legit, but I was at a stand still and honestly I was more pissed that my group decided to just wait for me to throw instead of saying something like "watch your feet" before I tossed.

If it's a casual round, sure, be pissed at your buddies. In competition, it's not their job to point it out, many just see it as gamesmanship, an opportunity to gain a stroke and unnerve their opponent.

Sometimes, nothing helps one player more than having a frazzled and irritated opponent.

 

[lyleoross]

Just a reminder, the reason that stand-and-deliver has not been favored over the years is that it is thought to be less exciting. The truth is that a properly designed course can accommodate stand-and-deliver with no loss of excitement. It is all philosophy.

Run up jump putts are wacky IMO. How you can expect to hit your target with a run up before release, other than as pure luck, escapes me. The step over putt is less so, but is hugely abused, simply watch Paul U. to see how to do it wrong.

Stand-and-deliver means that players using those tactics would have to redevelop their game, but the simple fact is that it puts everyone back on an equal footing. Paul U. loses three feet on putts outside the circle, legit or not, to put him where everyone else is, and many open field players lose an advantage in not having to slow down and split their focus during open field shots. While it seems less exciting, it is certainly more fair.

Time to write the PDGA a note....

 

[The Hammer]

Just a reminder, the reason that stand-and-deliver has not been favored over the years is that it is thought to be less exciting. The truth is that a properly designed course can accommodate stand-and-deliver with no loss of excitement. It is all philosophy.

Run up jump putts are wacky IMO. How you can expect to hit your target with a run up before release, other than as pure luck, escapes me. The step over putt is less so, but is hugely abused, simply watch Paul U. to see how to do it wrong.

Stand-and-deliver means that players using those tactics would have to redevelop their game, but the simple fact is that it puts everyone back on an equal footing. Paul U. loses three feet on putts outside the circle, legit or not, to put him where everyone else is, and many open field players lose an advantage in not having to slow down and split their focus during open field shots. While it seems less exciting, it is certainly more fair.

Time to write the PDGA a note....

Everyone is playing with the same set of rules. How is it not fair, or on unequal footing?

 

[AtomicDom]

Baserunners in baseball shouldn't lead off anymore either. It gives the fast ones an unfair advantage! Sounds to me like butthurt that other people have the ability to properly run up/jump putt. If you can't do it, fine, but don't change everyone's rules to conform to what's "best" for your game or course design.

Personally, I enjoy 2 or 3 full drives on a par 5.

 

[DavidSauls]

They probably didn't want to distract you during your throw by saying something. I've bit my tongue several times when I've seen someone lining up wrong. Often, they make a last-second move to get in the right position. If I had said something, it would have been both useless and distracting.

I've been that useless and distracting guy, warning an opponent not to do something he wasn't going to do, anyway. No way to know if the stance he's taking is his final stance, until he throws.

 

[bogeyfreetilinfinity]

Are the stand and deliver advocates proposing a change to the rules or just suggesting players choose to play that way? because the run up on the fairway, hitting a mark adds another element of risk/reward to the game, which everybody seems to be a fan of in course design.

 

[BrotherDave]

All this discussion and the simple answer is if you follow the rules wear clown shoes and use camouflage markers there's a 97% chance this would never happen.

fixed?

The line has no discernible thickness, that is true. And because that is true, it is also true that the line isn't as thick as the width of the disc. That's the point here...the width of the marker, whether it is the mini or the thrown disc, is irrelevant to determining the lie and proper supporting placement on the lie.

In the graphic below, the two stances on the left are not legal, the two stances on the right are. Contact with that the line of play of indiscernible thickness represented by the dotted line is essential.

Where do you get that from?

The Lie: The spot on the playing surface behind the marker, upon which the player takes a stance in accordance with the rules. It is a line 30 cm in length extending back along the line of play from the rear edge of the marker disc.

Line of Play:The imaginary line on the playing surface extending from the center of the target through the center of the marker disc and beyond.

"From the center/through the center" is where it breaks down. Something can extend from the center through the center without delineating actual borders/perimeters. I've typed this whole post in left alignment.

Now I'll align with the center.​

That is from the center. ^

This is also from the center yet it is much wider. Know what I'm sayin'?​

 

[Mulligan]

Baserunners in baseball shouldn't lead off anymore either. It gives the fast ones an unfair advantage! Sounds to me like butthurt that other people have the ability to properly run up/jump putt. If you can't do it, fine, but don't change everyone's rules to conform to what's "best" for your game or course design.
Personally, I enjoy 2 or 3 full drives on a par 5.

Yeah, but we don't change the size of the field from high school to pro ball do we?
Basketball has changed to favor hugely tall guys over the years, but we didn't raise the hoop.
Guys are faster, throw farther in football, but the field is still 100yrds long.
I can go play ball golf a courses a few miles from my house and do okay on holes that are just as the pros will play them in majors.
But, in disc golf the big tourneys manipulate typical course design to have some insanely long holes that only benefit one type of player and are not typically seen on 95% of the courses out there.

And, you don't see ball golfers using a driver from the fairway 2-3 times on par 5s cause they are given the extra benefit of a tee on the first shot. A driver club is meant to crush a cleanly elevated ball. After that, you've got to move to fairway woods or irons to get it off the grass cleanly... and this results in less power for most.
The run up is exactly the same thing as using a wooden tee to improve your hit, imo.

A more controlled, finesse game is way more interesting than open field bombing, imo.
And it keeps the playing field much more even.

 

[IHearChains]

Where do you get that from?
...

Now I'll align with the center.​

That is from the center. ^

This is also from the center yet it is much wider. Know what I'm sayin'?​

It comes from 9th grade geometry, or earlier. By definition, a line has no width. What you are describing are rectangles of variable width. We just use those to emphasize the location of the line.

 

[JC17393]

fixed?

Where do you get that from?

The Lie: The spot on the playing surface behind the marker, upon which the player takes a stance in accordance with the rules. It is a line 30 cm in length extending back along the line of play from the rear edge of the marker disc.

Line of Play:The imaginary line on the playing surface extending from the center of the target through the center of the marker disc and beyond.

"From the center/through the center" is where it breaks down. Something can extend from the center through the center without delineating actual borders/perimeters. I've typed this whole post in left alignment.

Now I'll align with the center.​

That is from the center. ^

This is also from the center yet it is much wider. Know what I'm sayin'?​

And if your last line represented your foot behind the marker represented by your third to last line, you'd be perfectly legal as long as it was within 30 cm.

The 2011 edition of the rules included the line "This line has no thickness; therefore one support point must be directly behind the center of the marker." at the end of the definition of line of play.

Does the elimination of that sentence from the current edition of the rule book make the line of play wider now? Does it have a defined width of any kind, or are we simply supposed to go with basic geometry and understand that a line has no discernible width by default, therefore the intent of the definition hasn't changed at all?

 

[Future_Primitive]

fixed?

Where do you get that from?

The Lie: The spot on the playing surface behind the marker, upon which the player takes a stance in accordance with the rules. It is a line 30 cm in length extending back along the line of play from the rear edge of the marker disc.

Line of Play:The imaginary line on the playing surface extending from the center of the target through the center of the marker disc and beyond.

"From the center/through the center" is where it breaks down. Something can extend from the center through the center without delineating actual borders/perimeters. I've typed this whole post in left alignment.

The REAR EDGE of a circle is a single point, the second you deviate right or left you are no longer at the rear edge of the circle. The bottom of the clock face is at 6, not at just past 5 or right before 7, it is directly below the 6.

In your post The Lie is defined from the rear edge of the marker disc.

 

[solidhummer]

I think we are getting off the original point a little but this is good to have the discussion. I was there at the worlds and have always been a big climo fan. I also remember Scott back in the 90's. Scott always challenged ken but couldn't really get over that hump in a worlds (neither could anyone else at the time). The reality is that they play against each other. In fact in golf you play against ever other player in your division. Now think about this for a minute. Forget about whether he foot faulted or not for a second and think of who is making the calls. Isn't that the real issue? Regardless of what you change the rule to if the competitor is allowed to make the determination, where is the integrity in that? How about the opposing baseball team being allowed to call balls and strikes? Or the defensive line allowed to call holding. Disc golf used to be smaller. There was one tournament director and maybe 70 players. There was a need for players to govern themselves. Since then the sport has grown and the money is bigger. There are hundreds of spectators and every one of them has a smart phone with HD camera. The point is this this the world championships. And the competition is making the calls.
Ask yourself a question.... In the games present form tell me if this is possible. ... If 2 players on any give card do not like a particular player on the same card and want that player to lose a few strokes. Would it be possible to call the foot faults that are "close"? Just answer if it is possible.
I hear folks saying that Scott shouldn't have made it close. But that is his right to use that space. I understand that IN ITS CURRENT FORM that he takes the chance of being called. (Like a pitcher painting the corners he may get the strike or it may be a ball) the difference is there is a neutral party behind the plate calling them. No one can say for sure that he did not foot fault. No one had a tape measure. No one can say for sure. But it is left up to your competitors?! Gimme a break. I've played disc golf since 81. The game evolves and so does should the rules.

 

[ian.]