Footwork Questions

[clard]

These questions come out of difficulty I've been having during my fieldwork recently. I have a flippy Destroyer that I've been tossing around trying to get clean, long hyzer flips. This disc is touchy enough that if my form isn't on point the disc will turn and burn, but If my form is good then it will do that late, smooth turn.

The problem started when I started trying to put more hyzer angle to compensate for some wind. As soon as I tried to put a deeper hyzer angle on it I could feel myself falling out of posture and the disc would start on the intended angle, but because my balance was off it would flip and burn really quickly. What I believe I was doing was tilting my upper body too far out over the toes, and not staying in the upright, stacked posture SW is always preaching.

It clicked that this might be the issue so I very consciously kept my nose over knee over toes, and what do you know? Clean releases. Late, long hyzer flips.

Here are my follow up questions:

1) How should footwork and nose > knee > toes positioning change for different release angles?

2) What does ideal footwork look like for flat, hyzer, and anhyzer shots look like?

I have provided a masterpiece illustration as a starting point.

This image assumes a flat release of the disc, and this is intended to be the position of various body parts at the time of disc release.

Is this image correct, and how would it change for different release angles?

 

[clard]

During fieldwork the past few days I have had some absolute crushes from a standstill because of this posture change. When using an x step, my last step has classically been at an angle (from right to left of the line, as viewed from behind the teepad) rather than straight forward toward the target. I think taking the last step at an angle made it more difficult to stay stacked and upright which I think also was taking away from the power I was getting from the weight shift.

As a result of
1) staying upright and stacked (nose over knee over toes)
2) making my weight shift a little more straight back and forth rather than swaying from left to right
3) because of the weight shift being more linear, really feeling a strong load against the back foot
my stand still distance is rivaling my previous max distance with a run up.

The challenge now is figuring out how to reincorporate the x step, and maintain these things. I know it's going to take some work to get the x step more linear (getting rid of the R to L sway), but what I'm really concerned about is maintaining that strong feeling of loading against the back leg. I have never felt such a strong feeling of power coming from the back leg.

 

[Aim For The Chains]

Yeah form is a finicky SOB.

I saw this slow mo of simon recently and love the walk-it-out x step. I might quit using the term "run-up" as that is really only for max D huge shots which hardly any of use players really need regularly. Nice illustration you made and often a simple fix for many players throwing off line.

 

[clard]

AFTC, I've been really inspired by watching Eagle throw lately. Even for 500' throws a lot of times he is just walking through the x step. Very little speed, completely controlled, and just straight crushes the disc. Throwing as far from a stand still as I have been with an x step has made me really rethink how I go about my "run up."

 

[sidewinder22]

1) How should footwork and nose > knee > toes positioning change for different release angles?

2) What does ideal footwork look like for flat, hyzer, and anhyzer shots look like?

I have provided a masterpiece illustration as a starting point.

This image assumes a flat release of the disc, and this is intended to be the position of various body parts at the time of disc release.

Is this image correct, and how would it change for different release angles?

The footwork typically angles toward the apex unless you are shaping a certain shot which adds a kind of OAT to it.

The nose, knee, and toes should be the same dynamic stack alignment and rotation but your balance/spine will tilt more forward for more hyzer or back more for more anhyzer. On anhyzer/roller the nose and knee may appear well right of the heel, but the bracing is still upright dynamically. Extreme hyzer the nose may appear well left of the toes.

The diagram is fine for a starting point of the swing, but all diagrams are limited showing the dynamic movement.

 

[sidewinder22]

The challenge now is figuring out how to reincorporate the x step, and maintain these things. I know it's going to take some work to get the x step more linear (getting rid of the R to L sway), but what I'm really concerned about is maintaining that strong feeling of loading against the back leg. I have never felt such a strong feeling of power coming from the back leg.

In an x-step you don't need as strong feeling against the back leg. You are only going to feel strong on the rear leg if you are accelerating faster off of it. A full standstill is a complete redirection of momentum backward then forward so you have to brace harder on the rear leg to change direction. An x-step already has your momentum going forward so it's harder to accelerate it more and you feel it less.

 

[clard]

The footwork typically angles toward the apex unless you are shaping a certain shot which adds a kind of OAT to it.

The nose, knee, and toes should be the same dynamic stack alignment and rotation but your balance/spine will tilt more forward for more hyzer or back more for more anhyzer. On anhyzer/roller the nose and knee may appear well right of the heel, but the bracing is still upright dynamically. Extreme hyzer the nose may appear well left of the toes.

The diagram is fine for a starting point of the swing, but all diagrams are limited showing the dynamic movement.

This makes sense. Tell me if this illustration is accurate.

In this image the direction of the run up is marked with the blueish line. So whenever the thrower plants, the nose > knee > toes is dynamically stacked because of the right to left run up.

In an x-step you don't need as strong feeling against the back leg. You are only going to feel strong on the rear leg if you are accelerating faster off of it. A full standstill is a complete redirection of momentum backward then forward so you have to brace harder on the rear leg to change direction. An x-step already has your momentum going forward so it's harder to accelerate it more and you feel it less.

This makes a lot of sense. I guess I will be reworking that this year. I feel like there is something to the Simon/Eagle walking x step (no hop at all really).

 

[clard]

I'm trying to find examples of the dynamic stacking you are talking about in videos.

Here's some shots from Nikko:

Hyzer: https://youtu.be/3QsQliW1is0?t=8m40s

Anhyzer: https://youtu.be/3QsQliW1is0?t=14m15s

 

[HyzerUniBomber]

Yeah form is a finicky SOB.

So - I pointed this out when Simon posted it on FB... and it really feels like I'm being jerky, but I'm absolutely not being snarky, I'm trying to give some constructive criticism:

/preamble

Simon is doing in that slow mo, EXACTLY what I've been called out for by SW on numerous occasions: NOT SHIFTING FROM BEHIND.

This is IMO a key concept that Simon didn't have an issue with pre-injury, but on a throw like that I'm guessing he was being cautious with his knee - and so he shifted his weight right to left. That'll reduce some of the power of the shift and as you watch the follow through, carried him past and around his brace.

The original post he had a couple more throws where he stayed more inline - and was still accurate.

I messaged this to Clard in FB as well, but the one issue that we might have with an image like the original one, is that the back foot will be off the ground at that point (for some time) and facing a different direction.

Forgive my coarseness, but the way that I teach this sensation in a lesson is that call it mashing your balls. Usually gets a laugh, but the idea is that the shift along the line when it's well braced - will crush your inner thighs together.

 

[Consult20]

So - I pointed this out when Simon posted it on FB... and it really feels like I'm being jerky, but I'm absolutely not being snarky, I'm trying to give some constructive criticism:

/preamble

Simon is doing in that slow mo, EXACTLY what I've been called out for by SW on numerous occasions: NOT SHIFTING FROM BEHIND.

This is IMO a key concept that Simon didn't have an issue with pre-injury, but on a throw like that I'm guessing he was being cautious with his knee - and so he shifted his weight right to left. That'll reduce some of the power of the shift and as you watch the follow through, carried him past and around his brace.

The original post he had a couple more throws where he stayed more inline - and was still accurate.

I messaged this to Clard in FB as well, but the one issue that we might have with an image like the original one, is that the back foot will be off the ground at that point (for some time) and facing a different direction.

Forgive my coarseness, but the way that I teach this sensation in a lesson is that call it mashing your balls. Usually gets a laugh, but the idea is that the shift along the line when it's well braced - will crush your inner thighs together.

Hey Hub, I posted that edited video for another DGCR member to illustrate the far left plant foot position. Simon is very definitely taking it easy on his knee on these throws, but he still generates incredible disc speed. As far as him falling over his plant, i guess I don't see it that way at all.

What do you think of this 600' throw by Will?

https://www.instagram.com/p/BOSRDCKhzch/?taken-by=schusterick

 

[HyzerUniBomber]

Hey Hub, I posted that edited video for another DGCR member to illustrate the far left plant foot position. Simon is very definitely taking it easy on his knee on these throws, but he still generates incredible disc speed. As far as him falling over his plant, i guess I don't see it that way at all.

What do you think of this 600' throw by Will?

https://www.instagram.com/p/BOSRDCKhzch/?taken-by=schusterick

He's not falling over his plant - but his momentum shift is a degree more left to right than it should have been. The follow through is one of your best tell tale signs for if you're pushing the right direction in a 1-step or if your x-step is carrying momentum along your trajectory line.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BOAe8VXgrpF/?taken-by=paul_mcbeth&hl=en

...

Will's shot was rad!

 

[sidewinder22]

Hey Hub, I posted that edited video for another DGCR member to illustrate the far left plant foot position. Simon is very definitely taking it easy on his knee on these throws, but he still generates incredible disc speed. As far as him falling over his plant, i guess I don't see it that way at all.

What do you think of this 600' throw by Will?

https://www.instagram.com/p/BOSRDCKhzch/?taken-by=schusterick

^ Will is throwing a distance shot way out to a left apex and the footwork matches moving from right - left. There is no drift or sway.

Will throwing a pure hyzer with footwork moving slightly left - right:

 

[sidewinder22]

Simon is OATing his shot in that video, flattening out his hyzer with his body.

Here's some better shots:

 

[Consult20]

He's not falling over his plant - but his momentum shift is a degree more left to right than it should have been. The follow through is one of your best tell tale signs for if you're pushing the right direction in a 1-step or if your x-step is carrying momentum along your trajectory line.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BOAe8VXgrpF/?taken-by=paul_mcbeth&hl=en

...

Will's shot was rad!

Ok Hub, thanks for clarifying. I know you use the Hudl app, have you ever used the commentary feature? That along with the comparison feature, drawing lines, etc. seems like a good teaching aid for things like this.

 

[HyzerUniBomber]

Ok Hub, thanks for clarifying. I know you use the Hudl app, have you ever used the commentary feature? That along with the comparison feature, drawing lines, etc. seems like a good teaching aid for things like this.

I have used hudl for a few videos, and it's biggest bonus for me was the ability to A-B to people's forms to show quickly the difference in timing and positioning. It's really a good tool.

 

[iacas]

Ok Hub, thanks for clarifying. I know you use the Hudl app, have you ever used the commentary feature? That along with the comparison feature, drawing lines, etc. seems like a good teaching aid for things like this.

If you have a Mac, I recommend (duh!) http://analyzrgolf.com/. "They" have been known to give out discounted copies of the software to amateur disc golf analysts, too.

 

[clard]

So - I pointed this out when Simon posted it on FB... and it really feels like I'm being jerky, but I'm absolutely not being snarky, I'm trying to give some constructive criticism:

/preamble

Simon is doing in that slow mo, EXACTLY what I've been called out for by SW on numerous occasions: NOT SHIFTING FROM BEHIND.

This is IMO a key concept that Simon didn't have an issue with pre-injury, but on a throw like that I'm guessing he was being cautious with his knee - and so he shifted his weight right to left. That'll reduce some of the power of the shift and as you watch the follow through, carried him past and around his brace.

As a result of the conversation in this thread, I have finally understood what SW was saying in a previous thread where he said I needed to be more "stacked an upright."

For the ENTIRE TIME I've played disc golf I have done that move that Simon does in this video. Over the past couple of days I've worked to correct my footwork and all of the sudden I can run up and throw an understable disc on a hyzer and have it flip late instead of OATing it. Obviously in a couple of days I'm not 100% yet, but man has this made a difference.

DYNAMIC BALANCE.

 

[HyzerUniBomber]

Merry Christmas! Form fixes under the tree this year!!!!

 

[Consult20]

If you have a Mac, I recommend (duh!) http://analyzrgolf.com/. "They" have been known to give out discounted copies of the software to amateur disc golf analysts, too.

Thanks for the recommendation but I use Windows laptops, an Apple Ipad, and Android phones. Kind of a mixd bag, just like my dg bag

 

[charmees]

Simon is doing in that slow mo, EXACTLY what I've been called out for by SW on numerous occasions: NOT SHIFTING FROM BEHIND.

This is IMO a key concept that Simon didn't have an issue with pre-injury, but on a throw like that I'm guessing he was being cautious with his knee - and so he shifted his weight right to left. That'll reduce some of the power of the shift and as you watch the follow through, carried him past and around his brace.

The original post he had a couple more throws where he stayed more inline - and was still accurate.

I don't fully understand what you mean by that. Shifting from behind, currently do you mean that runup is from right to left?