Categorizing release angle ranges

[disc-golf-neil]

I just got my tech disc, I'll make a separate thread in the nearish future where I'll keep providing updates on how various tests effect my stats. I'm going to first try to be able to consistently hit a certain speed and hyzer angle comfortably then use that as a baseline for my tests so I can warm-up with my default form to verify I'm hitting close to my "test" speed and release angle, then test a change and see how much it changes the stats when comparing only the throws that were close enough to my test throws to then average those stats.

However, for this post, I'm trying to think about what release angle ranges make sense for creating some buckets. Tech disc seems to automatically quantify [-4,4] as flat (that's 4 degrees anhyzer to 4 degrees hyzer inclusive), I'm not sure if that is a good range for considering a shot "flat" at a high level. For example, when pros try to throw flat they often have a small amount of hyzer, but I don't now how much.

So at a high level, what would make sense for categorizing inclusive hyzer angle ranges that could be targets for hyzer release angles? The ranges don't have to be the same interval necessarily, as you get into the larger hyzer angles if you don't necessarily have to be as precise I think.

This is my first attempt for hyzer angles without having much knowledge so provide your own numbers if you think it would be better to adjust the ranges. I plan to use these ranges in tags so I can tag my throws based on the release angle range I am trying to hit to build up my accuracy for hitting angles.

1. XS: [1, 5] extra small (baby hyzer)
2. S: [6, 10] small
3. M: [11, 15] medium (pushing hyzers / medium wide hyzers)
3. L: [16, 25] large (big wide hyzers)
4. XL: [26, 35] extra large (perhaps this would be spike hyzer)
5. 2XL: [36, 45] extra extra large (extreme spike hyzer)
6. 3XL: [46, 55] ? getting close to a grenade but without a thumb grip?

Similarly for launch angles, what ranges make sense?

 

[ru4por]

Wow....you are really reaching for some "big data", huh? Release angle's practical application has variables of disc choice, plastic choice, grip type, grip, wind, terrain, stability, fade, speed.....

I don't think I can think the game like this. Maybe if I only played with one disc, on calm days, on the same hole...over and over?

I married a math major, she solves problems like this too.

I'm going to the course and work on hyzer flips.

 

[Thereitgoestoday]

Seems like by the time you get done doing this, the clothes you wore the first day, will be well far out of style

 

[sidewinder22]

When it comes to learning throwing more efficiently IMO you want to be more like a lumberjack than a surgeon. Direct the energy into the ballpark, don't worry about hitting it perfect to center-field. I'm guessing Tech-disc discovered that when you ask a control group to throw flat there was 8 degreee variance, so that's your ballpark, which seems to agree with my thread about straight and flat swing plane does not exist.

Technically on BH or FH you have over 180 degrees of wing angle release option. Spike hyzers can be close to 90 degrees wing down to the ground. Rollers can be 90 degrees wing up to the sky and tomahawks and skymahawks are upside down. If your disc is understable enough you can throw rollers from significant hyzer angle, so there is all kinds of in between for hyzer flip and turnover. Most other sports do not come anywhere close to the same ballpark to our kind of variance. However you can master one ballpark angle and be very proficient by changing your disc to match your intended flight path.

Your launch angle should match where you want the apex of the shot to be.

Grenades are just upside-down disc grip hyzers.

Straight & Flat Swing Plane Does Not Exist!

So I think a lot of players really struggle finding that effortless distance because they are trying to throw straight and flat by pulling the disc with the arm in a straight line and trying to manipulate the spin of the disc flat by actively curling the wrist and arm into horizontal flexion and...

www.dgcoursereview.com

 

[Sheep]

straight and flat swing plane does not exist.

Yep

 

[HyooMac]

With all respect to Tech Disc and your efforts, is it a cop-out to think of the throw as being "more art than science"? Especially when facing actual playing conditions.

I don't mean to be critical of any effort to improve or better understand the mechanics. Keep it up! I just feel like you're chasing a degree of precision that doesn't really have a practical application.

 

[disc-golf-neil]

Release angle's practical application has variables of disc choice, plastic choice, grip type, grip, wind, terrain, stability, fade, speed.....

I don't mean to be critical of any effort to improve or better understand the mechanics. Keep it up! I just feel like you're chasing a degree of precision that doesn't really have a practical application.

It's hard to imagine that being rigorous with your goal for each throw and using objective feedback after each throw to course correct will result in anything but a practical improvement.


Here's how I think it will pan out. I'll be using a tech disc to test out many different things, but every time I throw I will also pick a MPH and a hyzer degree angle that I intend to hit and I check if I hit them. Over time this will improve my ability to command a speed and angle.

Fast forward to many months later where you can consistently target a MPH that's within a comfort zone that spans like 30 MPH but be within 3-5 MPH of your target, and for hyzer angle you can target something within a comfort zone across say a 50 degree range and be within 10 degrees usually.

Now you are on a usual course, you try to hyzer flip a disc you are familiar with but you turn it over. Now you can know by a more confident feeling how fast you threw it and how much hyzer you put on it because you've had thousands of confirmations about these stats recently. Now you can learn the disc even more intimately and know more specifically how much more hyzer you need if you speed up the throw, or how much less you need if you speed down, throw up or down a hill, instead of it just being a vague intuition that slowly becomes second nature (and as it does it recedes further from direct knowledge) and when you are off you aren't as sure what was off because it's you don't have as clear of a feel for the MPH or the angle you likely threw.

 

[Sheep]

I feel like there are some parts to the equation that are missing here.

But I see what your idea is, I think you're just missing some parts of the bigger picture.

 

[disc-golf-neil]

I feel like there are some parts to the equation that are missing here.

But I see what your idea is, I think you're just missing some parts of the bigger

Why say this without any useful details?

 

[biscoe]

Sounds like a lot of potential for the old "paralysis by analysis" to me.

 

[HyzerRoc]

I think it makes sense to combine the hyzer angles with release trajectory angles. The steeper your hyzer the higher you are gonna want to release the disc so it flies for a good bit before coming back and the form that achieves a hyzer also lends itself well to throwing really high.

Not sure I would approach it in such a systematic way but im curious what results you can get out of tailoring your training to the tech discs.

 

[disc-golf-neil]

I think it makes sense to combine the hyzer angles with release trajectory angles. The steeper your hyzer the higher you are gonna want to release the disc so it flies for a good bit before coming back and the form that achieves a hyzer also lends itself well to throwing really high.

Not sure I would approach it in such a systematic way but im curious what results you can get out of tailoring your training to the tech discs.

Yeah I thought about that but I actually do a flat launch angle with like 40 deg hyzer sometimes to get through a curve then penetrate flat, with that much hyzer on a pretty flippy disc with power it takes a while to fully flip up so you can get that curve first.

You can also see eagle pretty frequently doing a reach back parallel to the ground with quite a bit of hyzer for various types of flip shots.

 

[disc-golf-neil]

Sounds like a lot of potential for the old "paralysis by analysis" to me.

Doesn't require much analysis to say "im gonna try to throw 45 mph at 20 degrees hyzer" and then repeatedly throw and check the results each time making minor adjustments until you get it.

Also, the more you practice analyzing the greater your capacity for it is.

 

[BogeyNoMore]

 

[Countchunkula]

I'm not that good, but slight hyzer, regular hyzer, and steep hyzer is all I can execute semi-consistently. Emphasis on semi.

If I was going to have 6 hyzer angles dialed to the point of consistency (plus 6 anhyzer angles?) I'd eat up all my dg time waking hours practicing.

 

[RowingBoats]

All angles are viable for throwing lines with different discs imo. Practice them all and see what happens.

I don't think it's silly to practice angle control with the tech disc but I certainly don't step up to shots with mph and numerical degrees as my target. So I wouldn't train in that way personally.

Overall, I think this is a way over complicated approach. Seeing if you can consistently hit an angle is all good but just leave it at that imo! Why define so many categories?

But to somewhat answer your question I think you cut off viable angles way too early. I have holes where I throw a straight up rainbow shot lol. But I don't think of that shot as an 85 degree hyzer 52.4 mph throw. I pretty much literally just think about throwing a rainbow shape.

To be fair though it's the off-season and I can understand spending time this way. If you benefit from systematic categories do it. I just don't think it's a common thought process and it's going to be a personal thing to go that route. You don't need us to agree with the categories

 

[disc-golf-neil]

I think a lot of advanced players already do this in some form.

The better you get the more granular you are able to control your power and angles and people typically think about it in some relative terms and associated with feelings. For example a less advanced player maybe thinks about throwing soft, medium, or hard only. Whereas an advanced player has added additional granular levels and maybe uses percentages of their max power as a reference point and similarly has more granular reference points for angles.

But of course 80% power is a diff mph between diff people and even changes for yourself as your max power changes so being able to connect it to something more fixed could help if you got accustomed to it.

Some of the criticism sounds to me kinda like: "why do you need know how many feet the basket is from the tee? Just look at it and all you need to know is if it's 'really far, 'far', 'close'." And of course, I don't need to know how far the basket is, I can play without that information and still be accurate just by gauging it by looks. But if you become accustomed to taking that information into consideration, it can become more useful, hence people ranging to prep a shot.

 

[ru4por]

I think a lot of advanced players already do this in some form.

The better you get the more granular you are able to control your power and angles and people typically think about it in some relative terms and associated with feelings. For example a less advanced player maybe thinks about throwing soft, medium, or hard only. Whereas an advanced player has added additional granular levels and maybe uses percentages of their max power as a reference point and similarly has more granular reference points for angles.

But of course 80% power is a diff mph between diff people and even changes for yourself as your max power changes so being able to connect it to something more fixed could help if you got accustomed to it.

Some of the criticism sounds to me kinda like: "why do you need know how many feet the basket is from the tee? Just look at it and all you need to know is if it's 'really far, 'far', 'close'." And of course, I don't need to know how far the basket is, I can play without that information and still be accurate. But if you become accustomed to taking that information into consideration, it can become useful.

No need to defend your interest. We all learn and see things differently. We all come to the game with different goals and aspirations. I am 60 years old and grew up in a game that had NO data. No videos, no tutorials, no teachers. We started playing and continued for the passion of being outside, spending time with one another and stretching our competition legs, a bit.

I have never yearned to be a touring pro. Learning such subtle nuances and detailed data was never needed. I am a local hack, wallowing around 880, playing a few tournaments a year and mostly slinging plastic in leagues and with buddies. The joy is still the out of doors, my friends and a bit of competition. Now a couple lawn chairs and a cooler of a couple cold beers, after the round, would be FAR more important that a cyber disc and a laptop. Heck, I retired to get away from that exact stuff.

Have fun, do you and I hope you make the big time!!!

 

[sidewinder22]

I don't see the point in doing this unless you are settled on your form. Even then I'm not sure how useful this is throwing into a net rather than focusing on your target/apex in real world conditions with wind and obstacles. I'd spend more time working on the lines/destination rather than the release numbers.

 

[RowingBoats]

Some of the criticism sounds to me kinda like

I don't think anyone is criticizing you man. People are just not really thinking the same way and stating why.

I'm not sure what you expect here honestly. Why do you need people to agree with your categories? They will exist purely for your own personal thought process about how to throw discs consistently.

It's all good and I say do what is fun. Tech disc is cool but a whole lot of people got good at angle control before it existed so this is certainly not some objectively superior method to defend either.

And even if you go this route, if you do it early in your form work it really might not even help in the longer run.

I hope it works for ya though!