Forced to move up mid tourny?

[Emanbears23]

PDGA rules question : There is a TD in my area who is an awesome TD. Always puts on great tournaments. However at these tournaments he has a system where if your first round beats half of the field in the divison above you then you are moved into that divison (in sanctioned tournaments). Is this allowed under pdga rules? I just figured it was until I traveled a couple months ago to a biger disc golf scene and asked if they did that and was told it was not legal and they had never heard of anyone doing that.

 

[scarpfish]

No, its not PDGA legal and any TD doing such a practice is anything but awesome. One hot round does not equal a sandbagger.

If his events are unsanctioned event though, there's not much the PDGA can do about it.

 

[JC17393]

PDGA rules question : There is a TD in my area who is an awesome TD. Always puts on great tournaments. However at these tournaments he has a system where if your first round beats half of the field in the divison above you then you are moved into that divison (in sanctioned tournaments). Is this allowed under pdga rules? I just figured it was until I traveled a couple months ago to a biger disc golf scene and asked if they did that and was told it was not legal and they had never heard of anyone doing that.

Most certainly not allowed at sanctioned events. So called "bump" rules are outlawed.

PDGA Competition Manual Section 2.1
K. All "Bump" rules are invalid and not allowed at PDGA sanctioned events. Players shall be allowed to play in any divisions they might be eligible for, if those divisions are offered by the Tournament Director.

Non-sanctioned the TD has more freedom, but personally I think it's a dick move of the highest order to do that. Players have hot rounds. Doesn't mean they are necessarily going to keep it up. Let them stay where they are. If they win big, just make them play up the next time (though I don't even agree with that, but unsanctioned, what can you do?).

Frankly I hope this TD publicizes this little "rule" of his ahead of time. I know I'd be extremely pissed off if it happened to me or even if I saw this happen to someone else with no warning. That TD wouldn't see me at one of his events again, that's for sure.

 

[AndyJB]

Ah, the old "bump rule" They tried this with me in Korea, but not mid-tournament...of course it was more drastic. But that's a story for a different time.

Yeah that is some shady stuff in a tournament. While it may seem like the TD is trying to eliminate "sandbagging" its really not. Its just screwing someone for having a good round, rather than rewarding them. And what happens if the eventually winner of a division shoots the same or better in the 2nd round as the score that got someone bumped in the 1st?

 

[SonicGuy]

That sounds like the most awesome rule ever!!!

What you are telling me is that I can register for am, pay the lower rate, if I am playing really good I get the chance to win pro on the cheap, otherwise I stick in Am and have a chance there? Sign me up!

You folks saying it is shady sound like sandbags. Why would you not want the chance to actually win the tournament if you are hot that weekend? Why settle for a dominant fake title in the minors? I will never understand people who would rather be best of the worst. Dare to dream people.

 

[AndyJB]

I play MA2 and I'm rated 840. Yeah, I'm a HUUUGE sandbagger. And I ALWAYS have a chance of winning in MA2. Oh wait, I've never been close to winning MA2 and likely never will.

 

[Timeetyo]

That sounds like the most awesome rule ever!!!

What you are telling me is that I can register for am, pay the lower rate, if I am playing really good I get the chance to win pro on the cheap, otherwise I stick in Am and have a chance there? Sign me up!

You folks saying it is shady sound like sandbags. Why would you not want the chance to actually win the tournament if you are hot that weekend? Why settle for a dominant fake title in the minors? I will never understand people who would rather be best of the worst. Dare to dream people.

Because ams like to do things like follow a hot 950 rated round with an 825 rated round.

 

[krupicka]

I could see that as an interesting way to handle non-rated players, but definitely not for rated members.

 

[SonicGuy]

I play MA2 and I'm rated 840. Yeah, I'm a HUUUGE sandbagger. And I ALWAYS have a chance of winning in MA2. Oh wait, I've never been close to winning MA2 and likely never will.

So you would never be in danger of being bumped. :|

 

[Thumber]

I saw this happen a few years ago at a big unsanctioned tourny. Dude in AM2 shot a smoking hot round and basically got shamed by some unsavory AM2 players into playing up in AM1. Dude finished DFL in AM1. Many of those who piled on to shame him up were told afterwards what a dick move it was.

 

[1978]

Only time I saw this happen, not calling this kid out but it was funny anyways. austin turner was signed up for juniors at a charity event, Him at like 15 and 10 kids between 10 yo and 5yo. So we shamed him into playing Rec or Intermediate. He waited until all the cards were in and decided his division ( the one he had the best score in) lol. No one cared though because there weren't really any prizes.

Making someone move up after a hot round is probably the worst thing I have ever heard a TD do, except leaving half way through the tournament and taking all the money. That would be worse (never heard of that happen though).

 

[davetherocketguy]

The unsanctioned tourneys at Madeline Bertrand have done the bump thing for years. They'll bump you two divisions if your play is really hot. Like Am3 -> Am1.

I don't play Madeline Bertrand Tourneys anymore.

 

[Stardoggy]

So do people that have bad rounds get the option of moving down, as well?

 

[davetherocketguy]

So do people that have bad rounds get the option of moving down, as well?

I am not 100% certain but I don't think they do at the Madeline Bertrand tourneys.

 

[Stardoggy]

I guess I can see all that as a rule in an unsanctioned tourney, but it seems to me that it would lead to people leaving strokes on the course in the first round on purpose, just to not be bumped up...which pretty much makes the first round a sham.

 

[DavidSauls]

Sounds like a super-sandbagging rule to me. Doesn't it encourage playing really bad in the first round, so you can play against weaker players for the rest of the tournament?

 

[DiscFifty]

If they are sanctioned PDGA events, report him anonymously. Nothing else to discuss really.

 

[TimSyl]

In the Madeline Bertrand tourneys there used to be one guy in particular who would make sure his score was close to the best in Am 3, then shoot 5-7 shots better in the second round and win his Am 3 trophy. I never understood the motivation.

 

[JC17393]

If they are sanctioned PDGA events, report him anonymously. Nothing else to discuss really.

Why anonymously? No real reason to hide. If a TD were doing this in a sanctioned event, I'd be happy to put my name on the report that turned him in for it. Honestly, even if he never got my name as the person who reported him, I doubt he'd have any trouble figuring it out since I'd probably have told him to his face that I was going to report it.

 

[agibson]

While it may seem like the TD is trying to eliminate "sandbagging" its really not. Its just screwing someone for having a good round, rather than rewarding them.

Basing it on the performance of the division, instead of on something a skosh more objective like a round rating, seems additionally wrong-headed.

All of this might be easier to analyze with rated players. But, it seems like there's a widespread culture of players "playing up" (in some communities, probably not all). If you're a top MA3 player, playing in MA3, why on Earth would you be forced up into MA2 because you shot a good, or even decent, round and beat a bunch of so-so MA3 players "playing up" and occupying the bottom half of the MA2 field?