Hanging Basket: 2 Meter Ruling

[optidiscic]

I think a hanging basket is way better than contrived OOB.

A cone atop the basket would eliminate DROT and add visibility

I played a certain extinct course in NC that had a basket hanging in space on an uphill and the visual of a basket in space from below was one of the most amazing putting scenarios I ever had.

You could layup on the hill and have a scary putt back down the steep slope or go for it and risk a cage hit and roll down the hill...retrieval was simple as you just walked up the hill to get it.

I found nothing gimmicky about this hole....there were far more punitive putting scenarios in Charlotte that I found ridiculous and beyond tricky.....(disclaimer:I'm not a precise putter)


http://www.dgcoursereview.com/media.php?id=3263&mode=media&view=hole&hole=3&page=1#
Also this idea to formalize and standardize the game makes me nervous......why would we want to be limited and boring in our sport.....we are better than ball golf. why do we want to be more like it?

 

[Stud Muffin]

Doesn't the hanging basket swing in the wind?

That would be like playing basketball, and when you shoot, someone moves the basket. {Yes, I used to do that when we had the portable goals }


ps - sorry about the pic size I posted.

 

[Stud Muffin]

Also this idea to formalize and standardize the game makes me nervous......why would we want to be limited and boring in our sport.....we are better than ball golf. why do we want to be more like it?

A standardized basket would not make the game boring.
That's like saying hanging all basketball goals at 10ft makes the game boring.
This has nothing to do with being more like 'ball' golf, but being true 'golf'.

Instead of hanging a basket, why not drop a few loads of dirt, block it up, make a stairway to the top, and then just plant your basket on top. It would be, in event of elevation, the exact same thing. It's not the idea of the goal being in the air, it's the thought of shooting at a basket rocking back and forth like granny's swing on her front porch.{If the hanging basket swings, that is}

Let me just say it like this. Over in St Genevieve, MO, their disc golf course have home made baskets. I played the course 1 time, and I have no desire to ever go back.

 

[Giv'r]

It just sounds like a pretty stupid gimmick to me. Did anyone actually land on top of the basket?

 

[Cgkdisc]

Apparently three people landed on top and got penalized.

 

[Giv'r]

That's really bad to be penalized for missing a putt. What an evil minded TD.

 

[1978]

Here's a picture of the basket in question. It actually got aced twice on Saturday; once before the tournament and once during.

Ace on that hole is a bad shot with a lucky result.

 

[tistoude]

After reading this thread, I totally agree. Hanging a basket should not be allowed. THAT is the problem here, not the 2 meter rule. Like ball golf that has a regulation size hole and depth, disc golf should have a regulation height on a pole, and a regulation size.

Goofy ball golf has stupid holes too, it's called putt putt, or miniature golf. There you can putt into a clown's mouth.

I've kept an eye on this thread for the last couple days and I wanted to post a thought in regards to the Stud's post above.

It might just be me but I regard the Basket itself as the "regulated" hole or cup, with relatively standard size and depth, and all the space around it as the green. So a hanging basket is just a different type of green to me. When comparing it to ball golf, some of the greens that the PGA plays on are crazy even though the hole itself remains on the ground. They have multiple tiers, ridges, can be insanely fast or incredibly slow. Ball golf just regulates the size of the cup, not the green itself.

A hanging basket would compare well to a cup located on top of a ridge or peak on the green. It will be an uphill putt no matter where you are and if you miss it is rolling down the backside. There is nothing putt-putt about that in my opinion. Building a mound or hanging the basket does not change the specific shot necessary in my opinion.

The hole that was in question in this threads looks like a much better score separator than if the basket was normal height. Mid 200's with nary a tree in sight would produce pretty much straight 2's across the upper divisions and 3's for the bottom divisions. From a statistical standpoint a hanging basket on this hole is brilliant. The rule about OB on top of the basket is silly though.

 

[1978]

No matter what is around them, the hole in ball golf does not move out of the way of the approaching ball.

I like the idea of them for casual rounds, but your score should not be effected in a PDGA tournament because someone putted hard before you and the target is now moving or the wind moved the target as you threw. Someone putting out could even intentially swing the target leaving it up to you to try and steady it...which would potentially be a penalty for effecting parts of the course not in your lie or get you a time warning as you wait for it to stop swinging.

It is silly and I am pretty sure that the PDGA would require that this be anchored for a higher level tourny. We have had this discussion with them when planning on using Bracketts Bluff (with a hanging basket) for 2012 worlds. They required that we plant a pole in the ground to eliminate movement in order to use the basket.

 

[John Rock]

No matter what is around them, the hole in ball golf does not move out of the way of the approaching ball.

I like the idea of them for casual rounds, but your score should not be effected in a PDGA tournament because someone putted hard before you and the target is now moving or the wind moved the target as you threw. Someone putting out could even intentially swing the target leaving it up to you to try and steady it...which would potentially be a penalty for effecting parts of the course not in your lie or get you a time warning as you wait for it to stop swinging.

It is silly and I am pretty sure that the PDGA would require that this be anchored for a higher level tourny. We have had this discussion with them when planning on using Bracketts Bluff (with a hanging basket) for 2012 worlds. They required that we plant a pole in the ground to eliminate movement in order to use the basket.

Is that what you actually saw/heard from the pDGA, or something someone somewhere told you they saw/heard?

 

[Cgkdisc]

It's a common recommendation from those on the advance team from the PDGA to secure hanging baskets during Worlds in some manner. Graham may have been the one to make the comment to the Charlotte team.

 

[Stud Muffin]

No matter what is around them, the hole in ball golf does not move out of the way of the approaching ball.

Exactly.
Build a hill, secure the basket on the hill so it does not 'swing', problem solved.

 

[jobwilson]

A few things.

First: No one actually landed on top of the basket during the tournament. The question was regarding the ruling had someone landed on top.

Second: The basket didn't really swing that much, and there was some sizable wind gusts. Between the weight of the basket and the gauge of the chain, it stayed pretty stable. The basket moved most when players were handling it to retrieve their discs.

 

[Jbowdown]

Nobody posed this question about legality of the hanging basket. According to the PDGA Technical Standards Document doesn't the baskets rim height have to be 82" (with a +/- 6" variance) above grade (playing surface) to make it legal for competition? Isn't this why we see the man-made pyramids in the playing surface in order to raise the baskets height?

 

[jobwilson]

Well, there has been a twist. This came from Andrew Sweeton, PDGA Tour Manager on 8/12/11 14:08.

My official response on the subject:

Ruling:

"The hole as played and officiated in the event was legal as per the current 2011 PDGA Rules of Play and Competition Manual and as such did not require a waiver from the PDGA."

Commentary:

"Although legal under the current rules, this application of the two-meter rule was not well thought out and should not have been put in place. If I had been asked about this prior to the event, I would have strenously advised against using the two-meter rule in this fashion. The purpose of the two-meter rule is to provide risk-reward scenarios based on obstacles on the course. As the ultimate goal of every disc golf hole, the target itself should not be a risk-reward proposition and should not come in to play as an "obstacle" with the two-meter rule applied to it."

 

[Giv'r]

Well, there has been a twist. This came from Andrew Sweeton, PDGA Tour Manager on 8/12/11 14:08.

My official response on the subject:

Ruling:

"The hole as played and officiated in the event was legal as per the current 2011 PDGA Rules of Play and Competition Manual and as such did not require a waiver from the PDGA."

Commentary:

"Although legal under the current rules, this application of the two-meter rule was not well thought out and should not have been put in place. If I had been asked about this prior to the event, I would have strenously advised against using the two-meter rule in this fashion. The purpose of the two-meter rule is to provide risk-reward scenarios based on obstacles on the course. As the ultimate goal of every disc golf hole, the target itself should not be a risk-reward proposition and should not come in to play as an "obstacle" with the two-meter rule applied to it."

In other words, "What a stupid rule."

 

[Cgkdisc]

Jbowdown - Nobody posed this question about legality of the hanging basket. According to the PDGA Technical Standards Document doesn't the baskets rim height have to be 82" (with a +/- 6" variance) above grade (playing surface) to make it legal for competition?

If you read that particular spec closely, it says "as manufactured" not "as installed." Take a look at the Target section of the PDGA Course Guidelines that were updated earlier this year:

http://www.pdga.com/documents/pdga-course-design-guidelines

 

[Jbowdown]

If you read that particular spec closely, it says "as manufactured" not "as installed." Take a look at the Target section of the PDGA Course Guidelines that were updated earlier this year:

http://www.pdga.com/documents/pdga-course-design-guidelines

Oops, I meant cm instead of inches! That's very interesting that they don't have a designated minimum and a maximum, just a 'recommended' height. I guess that makes baskets that are either sunken into the ground or 30' in the air both legal.

I guess maybe it's a way to future-proof our sport to allow for DG EXTREME!

(Coming to the X-Games in 2025)​

 

[Barbiaux]

Is there a rule that says you can hang a basket. I could see it being ok for league but for a PDGA tourney is this legal. I think it is ridiculous to have this as a hole, IMO

 

[bombmk]

http://www.pdga.com/rules/80203-targets

"A. Targets used to complete the hole may not violate any of the conditions set forth in the
official PDGA Technical Standards Document. See sections 803.13 B and C for criteria to hole out
for targets. "

Tech specs: http://www.pdga.com/files/documents/PDGATechStandards_8_1_11.doc.pdf

Thing is, I cant find anything in the tech specs that specifically requires a base. But it would have to have been PDGA approved _with_ whatever chain/rope it is hanging in, as far as I know.