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How to avoid rounding
- Thread starter ALT-J
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I think that understanding the mechanics of a throw is important if you are going to utilize drills and actually learn from them.
Reading the form crash course at heavydisc.com and watching Hyzerunibombers (loopghost on youtube) videos while throwing neutral putters from a standstill for 2 months helped me immensely with a straight pull and clean release from the right pec (no wobble or turning over). After incorporating an x-step and struggling with distance, Sidewinder22's videos (seabas22 on youtube) of drills and biomechanics of the throw have helped me build a balanced, postured and powerful throw and I went from throwing 300 feet before christmas to a constant 400-420 og good rips, and I even measured 440 on a particulary good throw yesterday.
Reading the form crash course at heavydisc.com and watching Hyzerunibombers (loopghost on youtube) videos while throwing neutral putters from a standstill for 2 months helped me immensely with a straight pull and clean release from the right pec (no wobble or turning over). After incorporating an x-step and struggling with distance, Sidewinder22's videos (seabas22 on youtube) of drills and biomechanics of the throw have helped me build a balanced, postured and powerful throw and I went from throwing 300 feet before christmas to a constant 400-420 og good rips, and I even measured 440 on a particulary good throw yesterday.
I think I have a fairly good understanding of the mechanics of the throw but it's even harder to correct bad habits than I couldve ever imagined. It's encouraging though to hear you succeeded. Been doing the one step beato drill every day for a week now focusing on the weight shift. Still no progress on keeping it straight.
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- Oct 14, 2008
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Throw and record video of yourself throwing.
Make one or two adjustments and do some drills.
Rinse, repeat.
Make one or two adjustments and do some drills.
Rinse, repeat.
clard
Double Eagle Member
QFT
The one thing that bugs me about the "right pec" drill is that it can make you think you should be throwing the disc with your arm. Beto says to "punch" towards your target, and that can lead you down the wrong path. The arm needs to be a loose whip that you power with your rotation and weight shift. Don't use your arm/shoulder/back muscles if you are trying to develop feel for generating power from the ground up. Keep it slow and loose and you will figure it out.
m1shootr
Bogey Member
Very good point. I agree. Incorporating the legs and trunk is more of a total throw. As Jay Yeti calls the "power generator". Now, if I could just do it!
Putt for D'oh
Double Eagle Member
I think just like how you can watch 4 or 5 tutorial videos that essentially say the same thing, but one of them clicks for individuals more than another for some reason same with some of these drills.
If the Beto / right pec isn't working for you go through some of the others.
Mike C has a way of communicating that seems super clear to some, and his vid where rather than right pec puts his fingers on his left shoulder and rotates to point with his elbow. By itself didn't do much for me but in context of other drills was a bit eye opening.
rhatton's vids on rounding and using the body. I would say watch those along with SW22's Reciprocating Dingle Arm.
Also watch rhatton's working around the disc, Closed Shoulder Drill and SW22's door frame drills. All together.
Sometimes after watching one of these, trying it then watching another stuff all of a sudden just clicks.
Isn't it supposed to be almost all arm when the disc reaches the right pec? Strong arming is the next step once I figure out the rounding problem.
The arm is always just along for the ride. Its the lever which flings the disc. Doesnt need to generate any real power. Its how us skinny dudes can crush 
Stand with your arms hanging freely at your sides and turn your hips back and fourth. You will see how much your arms start to whip around without even using them. Now add in a run up and timing etc with some defined mechanics and boom! No need to "try to throw hard" it generally doesnt work.
Stand with your arms hanging freely at your sides and turn your hips back and fourth. You will see how much your arms start to whip around without even using them. Now add in a run up and timing etc with some defined mechanics and boom! No need to "try to throw hard" it generally doesnt work.
Rocaholic74
* Ace Member *
The arm is always just along for the ride. Its the lever which flings the disc. Doesnt need to generate any real power. Its how us skinny dudes can crush
Stand with your arms hanging freely at your sides and turn your hips back and fourth. You will see how much your arms start to whip around without even using them. Now add in a run up and timing etc with some defined mechanics and boom! No need to "try to throw hard" it generally doesnt work.
But what happens when you're not tall and skinny with long arms but built like a small linebacker with short but strong arms....do we try and whip our little arms just like you tall guys?
Yeah its just harder due to your raptor arms. Its all about using the body. Doesnt matter the shape. Still waiting for avery jenkins body building ass to set a world record . . . .
NathanNoodleArm
Eagle Member
You throw as far as me and I'm tall and skinny...
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clard
Double Eagle Member
Nope! I tried to throw with my arm and shoulders for a long time, and that just isn't how it's done.
Once the disc gets to the right pec that is the point where the disc/arm will be forcefully unloaded from your body because of your weight shift and rotation. When you feel it you understand that you can't possibly get your arm moving that fast with your arm/shoulder/back muscles.
lyleoross
* Ace Member *
IMO, the go to video for technique is Dave Feldberg's USDGC video from 2011, on YouTube. He doesn't say anything really new, he just says it better. He specifically addresses rounding in that take.
To add to that, my impression is that most rounding is caused by the awareness that you need to put spin on the disc, and the method used. As AFTC has posted above, your arm is sort of along for the ride. Now, I would add that for me, the unwind is a little more active than that, but I'd argue that AFTCs approach is the correct one. When you are pulling hard at the start to get the momentum necessary to spin that disc out, you round. When you are relaxed and easy, the motion pulls the disc into a position to put spin, via snap, at the hit. Because of that, you are way less prone to rounding. Rounding is caused by pulling to hard through the hit.
All the guys up above say repeatedly, it ain't the arm and shoulder, they're right. Your power comes from the core, and legs, your arm is a whip, not the active component of the throw.
To add to that, my impression is that most rounding is caused by the awareness that you need to put spin on the disc, and the method used. As AFTC has posted above, your arm is sort of along for the ride. Now, I would add that for me, the unwind is a little more active than that, but I'd argue that AFTCs approach is the correct one. When you are pulling hard at the start to get the momentum necessary to spin that disc out, you round. When you are relaxed and easy, the motion pulls the disc into a position to put spin, via snap, at the hit. Because of that, you are way less prone to rounding. Rounding is caused by pulling to hard through the hit.
All the guys up above say repeatedly, it ain't the arm and shoulder, they're right. Your power comes from the core, and legs, your arm is a whip, not the active component of the throw.
lyleoross
* Ace Member *
All of that said, go look at the slow mo video of the top players on Spin TV. You will see that at the hit, their forearm flexes in what looks like a quite hard fashion. But right up to that point, they are very relaxed and smooth, not pulling but directing. It is easy to think that implies that you are unloading with a lot of muscle, you aren't. You are simply unwinding that arm. It's active, IMO, but barely. If you are too active, you are taking away from the power you've built from the bottom up. Now, AFTC may actively disagree with this, and I won't argue the point, I know it happens, I see the top guys do it. That isn't to say that AFTC isn't right, he may well have tapped into a different approach that works really well, that I've not seen. His major point that the arm is mostly along for the ride is, IMO, very correct. A counter view is that flex isn't due to an active unwind, but instead, it's due to an active grip on the disc and that is more consistent, I think, with what AFTC says.
Yeah, Its the grip pressure youre seeing IMO. The "trigger pull" into the hit is where i feel those muscles flex which is different from a strong arm which has tight grip at reachback and doesnt get the body out of the way to move around the disc.
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I'm going to say what everyone else is saying, but from a non-athletic point of view.
First of all,
I am not a natural athlete. Sports do not come easily with me. I have to work for everything.
When I started down the path of re-building my throw ~18 months ago, I soaked up everything I could understand.
That took all of 10 minutes or less. Snap, flex, core, power grip, pinch, hit, trigger, active, reachback, I could go on for a few more lines. Very frustrating to read and not understand...at all.
Here's what I did, got on eBay and bought a $300 (good, 60fps) camcorder for $50.
Took it out to the field and then sent the vid into the form analysis folks here on DGCR and got my feeling s hurt.
Worked on some things and sent another vid, and got my feelings hurt, but I could tell it was better.
Rinse and repeat.
I would work on the problems I knew about, and then discover others.
Over and over and over again.
After a year and a half, I understand most of the things these guys are talking about.
Don't feel bad if you don't grasp it all at once.
A lot of what they are talking about is "feel" that you won't know about without quite a few repetitions, or a good bit of athleticism.
No easy answers, just work.
Like I said:
Throw and record video of yourself throwing.
Make one or two adjustments and do some drills.
Rinse, repeat.
Hope this helps.
BTW, after a year and a half I can out-drive most everybody I play with, but my consistency (and my short game) needs work.
First of all,
I am not a natural athlete. Sports do not come easily with me. I have to work for everything.
When I started down the path of re-building my throw ~18 months ago, I soaked up everything I could understand.
That took all of 10 minutes or less. Snap, flex, core, power grip, pinch, hit, trigger, active, reachback, I could go on for a few more lines. Very frustrating to read and not understand...at all.
Here's what I did, got on eBay and bought a $300 (good, 60fps) camcorder for $50.
Took it out to the field and then sent the vid into the form analysis folks here on DGCR and got my feeling s hurt.
Worked on some things and sent another vid, and got my feelings hurt, but I could tell it was better.
Rinse and repeat.
I would work on the problems I knew about, and then discover others.
Over and over and over again.
After a year and a half, I understand most of the things these guys are talking about.
Don't feel bad if you don't grasp it all at once.
A lot of what they are talking about is "feel" that you won't know about without quite a few repetitions, or a good bit of athleticism.
No easy answers, just work.
Like I said:
Throw and record video of yourself throwing.
Make one or two adjustments and do some drills.
Rinse, repeat.
Hope this helps.
BTW, after a year and a half I can out-drive most everybody I play with, but my consistency (and my short game) needs work.
Last edited:
lyleoross
* Ace Member *
One thing to consider, sort of consistent with what Disc Junkie wrote. i walk through my throw, the whole thing. I reach back and ask myself, where do I want that reach back directed? If I reach back here, where does the disc end up at the hit point? Then I pull into the throw, in slow motion, and remind myself, at this point, the arm is relaxed, I'm guiding the disc on this line. At the unwind I ask myself, what is my grip, what is my torso doing, what angle is the disc at etc. I go right through to the hit or release point.
That process seems to help me keep the disc on the line I want to throw down. That image of the hit point seems to lock in and I am more likely to accelerate into it than to round. This is a bit like Disc Junkie filming himself. I'm building a preimage of the throw prior to throwing that has the correct elements and speed on it rather than just winding up and tossing it. It's more immediate than filming, and after the throw you can ask, did I hit the elements I described in my prethrow?
That process seems to help me keep the disc on the line I want to throw down. That image of the hit point seems to lock in and I am more likely to accelerate into it than to round. This is a bit like Disc Junkie filming himself. I'm building a preimage of the throw prior to throwing that has the correct elements and speed on it rather than just winding up and tossing it. It's more immediate than filming, and after the throw you can ask, did I hit the elements I described in my prethrow?
