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I think Val got burned.
- Thread starter FatLarry
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A sponsored pro, but not a touring one.
Bottom line is the Competition Manual and its rules regarding caddies has been in place pretty much unchanged for a number of years now, and the interpretation of them has always been that whatever violations the caddy incurs, the punishment is meted out to the player for whom they are working. There is no, or there is not intended to be, any wiggle room for the TD to take half measures or to treat caddy and player as separate entities. If the caddy commits an action that warrants a courtesy violation, the player gets the courtesy violation. If the caddy breaks a rule for which DQ is the required action, the player is DQed from the event.
To my knowledge, the rule as written hasn't been interpreted any differently by anyone until this thread. Stands to reason that if no one has yet brought up the notion that the text could be interpreted in an unintended way, there's no reason the rules committee would think the text needed to be changed. And the only way for the rules committee to know this would be to inform them and, if you're being helpful, to suggest an alternative wording that does accomplish what they intend with no room for doubt. If you're unwilling to do that, then you have no room to argue or complain about the job they are/aren't doing with the rule book.
Also, this was an NT event. If you think the TD acted without consulting with a number of PDGA officials (Tour Manager, Event Manager, etc), you'd be sorely mistaken. This wasn't the act of a single TD making his own interpretation. This was as good as all of the PDGA's powers-that-be making the call.
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SonicGuy
Banned
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All right, let's hear all the times that the rules committee said it is the way you are declaring. Not that it matters for my argument, my argument is predicated on the language of the rule. But it matters dearly to your argument, so go ahead and argue it instead of making sweeping statements without backing.
dorseymatt
Eagle Member
It seems silly to not release the full details of what happened. Jamie, I appreciate what information you've provided, and I look forward to hearing more. But the parties involved, the reporters, etc should be saying what happened.
Whether the players etc like it or not, this is a professional sport with diehard fans. If it were a major sport, the details would be out, and there would be no room for speculation. As a fan, my expectation/hope is that disc golf is covered like a major sport.
Whether the players etc like it or not, this is a professional sport with diehard fans. If it were a major sport, the details would be out, and there would be no room for speculation. As a fan, my expectation/hope is that disc golf is covered like a major sport.
lyleoross
* Ace Member *
I think that's the point. I seriously doubt it was an empty can. No one works that way.
paulw
Eagle Member
Um -- well, since it's getting salty in here, remember that neither of your arguments matter since you're on a message board, just saying.
wolfmandragon
* Ace Member *
I would disagree with that. Sound arguments here may change the way TDs run smaller tourneys, which may one day grow large.
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jeffmonty
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It doesn't matter how many people believes that the word "may" is not permissive, it is permissive. There is no stare decisis in the rules. "May" means "may," not "must" or "shall."
Lazerface
Eagle Member
Peeps be hating on Sonic's approach, but he be right. TD had a choice, and chose to DQ Val. The rules were not applied unfairly in any way, but I'm 100% with Sonic that if the violation was indeed simply the caddy having a beer during the round with no other circumstances (belligerent, park officials aware, warned at any time, etc), then DQ the caddy and let the player play on.
I don't think that choice would have been "unprofessional" in any way and would of set a good precedent for caddy behavior at future events.
However, since I'm in the speculation phase I will have to listen to the Ultiworld podcast before I settle in on an opinion on this matter.
I don't think that choice would have been "unprofessional" in any way and would of set a good precedent for caddy behavior at future events.
However, since I'm in the speculation phase I will have to listen to the Ultiworld podcast before I settle in on an opinion on this matter.
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+2 for using Latin
illyB420
Newbie
Ya, in a C tier or below, the TD MAY dq or just warn, exactly like I just said, in a NT he doesn't not have that choice. It's clearly written, not sure why no one seems to understand it. Your casual tourny, the TD makes a judgement call, at a major the rules are CLEAR...
illyB420
Newbie
"The Tournament Director may, at his sole discretion, elect to issue a warning to the offending player in lieu of disqualification solely at PDGA events sanctioned at C-tier and below."
This is from the PDGA, it should clear things up right? Please tell me you get the difference now? THE TD HAD NO CHOICE FFS
This is from the PDGA, it should clear things up right? Please tell me you get the difference now? THE TD HAD NO CHOICE FFS
How do you disqualify a caddy?
brutalbrutus
* Ace Member *
One thing keeps coming to my mind. Was it really her mom? If so, I think she should have known better and will she be subject to a suspension?
@iDiscGolf
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Know better for carrying a empty beer can??
brutalbrutus
* Ace Member *
Did I miss the part where it was verified as an empty can?? And even if it was an empty can, did she empty it? Since park rules prohibit alcohol in that area, she has been playing dg long enough to know that she shouldn't have been.
teemkey
* Ace Member *
That's why I'm glad there's a "may" in the rules. If I pick up litter on the course, and that litter is from an alcohol or tobacco product then I'm technically in violation of the rules -- a TD should not DQ me for that.
jeffmonty
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That's interesting because some years ago a friend of mine was in a softball league and played their games in a park that prohibited alcohol. He was picking up some beer cans that some other team had left in the parking lot and got a ticket from some Barney Fife park ranger for possession of the cans. He tried to explain but the guy didn't buy it.
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