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Is Infinite the new Discmania

Side note across the entire spectrum...all manufacturers are low on inventory and playing catch up.

Stock disc prices have remained pretty much at the same price points ($8 dx, $11-12 pro, and $15ish champ) the entire 20 years I've been playing. There have been a few more blends added with slightly higher price points, and if you're buying from a place like Dick's or Academy I'm not talking about full MSRP pricing. Also not counting specialty/tour series runs, just plain Jane stock discs.

If I were a manufacturer now would be the perfect time to increase prices by a buck or two across the board, the specially coming off of such a supply shortage. Bulk plastic prices went up due up Covid, Suez Canal, blah blah blah so we had to pass along the price increase.
 
On a personal level, there are some discs that I'd love to try (P1's and FD2's), but I'm not going to chase discs. If I can't grab it at my store or get it from one of the main retailers, I'll do without or try something else.

What I'm curious about is if someone like Gavin Rathbun is able to get everything he wants/needs.

My guess is no, Gavin was just commenting on a Discmania FB page yesterday saying he wished it was easier to get more DD3's.
 
Imagine being a pro out on tour, trying to grind a living and you can't even get the discs you throw from your sponsor.

"Hey, uh, Jussi, can I get a couple P2's?"

"Here's some Maestros, that should hold you over until 2022."
 
Simon signed a 5 year extension late 2018 and Eagle signed a 3 year extension at the end last year, so both will be free agents end of 2023.

Not a completely direct comparison necessarily because we're talking team sports vs individual, but typically players want long term deals (aka guaranteed money) and the owners are reluctant to commit. 3 and 5 year extensions aren't forever, but a lot has changed since Simon's last deal and you gotta figure they won't slow down any time soon.

This might be one of the few situations where a longer term deal could potentially backfire for the player?
 
If I were a manufacturer now would be the perfect time to increase prices by a buck or two across the board, the specially coming off of such a supply shortage. Bulk plastic prices went up due up Covid, Suez Canal, blah blah blah so we had to pass along the price increase.

All of which is true, plastic prices have increased and other prices of raw materials in the supply chain have gone up a lot. Expect price increases on Baskets especially going forward.

Prices are up almost 20% year on year out of China for metal products. Textiles are likely to rise soon as well. Import prices have quadrupled to Europe from China and I would imagine probably doubled to the US.

A 20' container coming this way holds around 500 portable baskets. This time last year it was $2500 to ship, our container arriving in two weeks was $10000 we're now booking out another one at $13000, just for the shipping. Duties and taxes and product cost not included. You can see the issue coming with prices, especially as most European imports are into Scandinavia where it is even more expensive to ship from China.

(Sidenote - Forgetting Disc Golf this is also going to create huge inflation across all everyday products all of which are affected at some point by this supply chain. It might just be a small time blip but boats were taken off the water during the pandemic and container manufacturers stopped producing or went out of business and they take a long time to come back online. It was around 2 -3 years after the 2008 crash before the logistics market got back price wise and the shipping speed has never been as good since, 7 weeks door to door on average now vs 5.5 then)

Discmania's new soft blend starter sets. China made, looking to retail for €9.95. You get around 5500 of these in a 20' container.

The maths and decision making doesn't look so great on that one especially in a sport where no one ever has shouted about three disc starter sets being too expensive at €20 - €30.....

Some of Discmania's decision making recently has been odd and the inflated price sell off of first/second run discs smacks of a cash grab. Jees. Back channel it for God's sake, don't actively gouge your loyal customer base. Give them away alongside orders of the new molds to a given value or something. Charging disc flipper prices as the brand owner is an ugly look. Unless you're in desperate need for cash of course.

For any US readers, European ltd. company accounts are in the public record if you were interested in viewing them. They are a snapshot of last years position and of course don't do more than give a picture. There maybe subsidiary companies that are not easily linked (lots of different companies come under the Jussi umbrella) but it's interesting viewing none the less. I think Finland is free to view and Sweden might cost you a few dollars per company or it could be the other way round, I've not looked recently.

For our market over here there is little to no interest in the new Discmania molds either from China or Sweden, the only demand is for the Originals and it will take a good couple of years of hard pushed Crush Boy marketing to change that. EDIT I believe this is different in Finland where there is more demand for the new stuff.
 
Discmania is the only "large" manufacturer who doesnt make any of their own products, they rely solely on Innova and Latitude.

Jussi comes out and says theyre working hard, and everyone has to wait, its the same show over and over again. Innova is going to run X amount of P2s and originals, then they will sell out instantly, then what? Whens the next run of P2s coming?

I dont see how this is a sustainable business model. Discmania cant drop Innova and lose all the original molds that Innova is supplying. If it wasnt for the partnership with Latitude, discmania wouldnt have made a single disc in well over a year.
 
In case anyone is 'in the know'... are Discmania originals made with mold parts from other Innova discs, OR do Originals have unique molds?

If they are all Innova parts thrown together, that's bad for Discmania. If the molds are unique, then there should be some sort of contract about who owns what. Was disc golf small enough that deals like this were made with handshakes?
 
In case anyone is 'in the know'... are Discmania originals made with mold parts from other Innova discs, OR do Originals have unique molds?

If they are all Innova parts thrown together, that's bad for Discmania. If the molds are unique, then there should be some sort of contract about who owns what. Was disc golf small enough that deals like this were made with handshakes?


I know that the PD is a firebird wing but I believe it's a unique top. The P2 is the Aviar X mold without a bead.
I'm surprised that Millennium hasn't made more of an effort to capitalize on this situation. Millennium has a lineup that could easily replace every DM mold, everything is molded by Innova, and their stock is all readily available.
 
I know that the PD is a firebird wing but I believe it's a unique top. The P2 is the Aviar X mold without a bead.
I'm surprised that Millennium hasn't made more of an effort to capitalize on this situation. Millennium has a lineup that could easily replace every DM mold, everything is molded by Innova, and their stock is all readily available.

Depending on what you mean by the bolded, it's either true for every brand, or it means they have essentially identical molds. Not sure that's the case.

If they have identical molds, then either a) people want the P2 stamp, damnit, or aren't posting this info here because they want that Millenium stock to actually remain available.

In either case, I don't think Millenium should be interested in the short term hit of being the "generic equivalent" of Discmania. Long term it's probably a bad position.
 
In either case, I don't think Millenium should be interested in the short term hit of being the "generic equivalent" of Discmania. Long term it's probably a bad position.

Because people realizing that "generic equivalent" is one of the best kept secrets in discs and actually increasing their customer base is a bad thing? I'd think they'd be happy to increase their market share, but maybe the owners at Millennium aren't interested in making money.

It sounds like you either know how great Millennium's lineup is and want to keep it under the radar so secondary market prices stay reasonable, or you've never thrown one of their discs.
 
In case anyone is 'in the know'... are Discmania originals made with mold parts from other Innova discs, OR do Originals have unique molds?

If they are all Innova parts thrown together, that's bad for Discmania. If the molds are unique, then there should be some sort of contract about who owns what. Was disc golf small enough that deals like this were made with handshakes?

I know there is such a thing as the Discmania anyhzer top. I believe it was made specifically for them....but has been used on other non-Discmania molds over the years.
 
Depending on what you mean by the bolded, it's either true for every brand, or it means they have essentially identical molds. Not sure that's the case.

If they have identical molds, then either a) people want the P2 stamp, damnit, or aren't posting this info here because they want that Millenium stock to actually remain available.

In either case, I don't think Millenium should be interested in the short term hit of being the "generic equivalent" of Discmania. Long term it's probably a bad position.


While it's true for every brand, I think the difference is that the original discmania molds use the same plastic as Millennium molds and often share at least some mold pieces.

Millennium was around before Dismania and I'm guessing DM took a big chunk of their market share. The OLF/JLS combo was the original PD/FD. The molds are either identical or very close:

Omega 4 is a P2 for sure
Aurora MS is basically an MD
JLS would plug right in for FD
OLF and PD share a Firebird wing, OLF is a Wraith top, PD is unique
CD2 and Orion LS are really close
FD3 and Draco are very close

I don't bag any drivers faster than 9 speed but it seems the DDx and Scorpius are very close
 
Which non-Discmania discs use the Anhyzer top? I'm not aware of any

I should have said 'I vaguely remember some other discs having the anhyzer top...but I barely remember Tuesday'

It might have been one of the Infinite molds for all I can actually remember.
 
Which non-Discmania discs use the Anhyzer top? I'm not aware of any

I should have said 'I vaguely remember some other discs having the anhyzer top...but I barely remember Tuesday'

It might have been one of the Infinite molds for all I can actually remember.

My understanding is that the anhyzer top came from one of the Tee-Rex variations/re-toolings attempting to make a Wraith-X and DM has exclusive use of that top mold piece at this point.

While it's true for every brand, I think the difference is that the original discmania molds use the same plastic as Millennium molds and often share at least some mold pieces.

Millennium was around before Dismania and I'm guessing DM took a big chunk of their market share. The OLF/JLS combo was the original PD/FD. The molds are either identical or very close:

Omega 4 is a P2 for sure
Aurora MS is basically an MD
JLS would plug right in for FD
OLF and PD share a Firebird wing, OLF is a Wraith top, PD is unique
CD2 and Orion LS are really close
FD3 and Draco are very close

I don't bag any drivers faster than 9 speed but it seems the DDx and Scorpius are very close

Similar flight numbers when comparing the lineups but pretty different feel. Plenty of overlap between Infinite/Millennium/Hyzerbomb/Innova to recreate a DM only bag.

Supply of Millennium hasn't been very high historically (seems a bit more coming out last couple years) & Infinite still has certain molds out of stock from their line. Infinite has done run a lot of special edition runs and have their monthly subscription service in addition to selling a lot of Innova which may get them into the production schedule more often.
 
While it's true for every brand, I think the difference is that the original discmania molds use the same plastic as Millennium molds and often share at least some mold pieces.

Millennium was around before Dismania and I'm guessing DM took a big chunk of their market share. The OLF/JLS combo was the original PD/FD. The molds are either identical or very close:

Omega 4 is a P2 for sure
Aurora MS is basically an MD
JLS would plug right in for FD
OLF and PD share a Firebird wing, OLF is a Wraith top, PD is unique
CD2 and Orion LS are really close
FD3 and Draco are very close

I don't bag any drivers faster than 9 speed but it seems the DDx and Scorpius are very close

Scorpius is much closer to a DD3/Destroyer.
 
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