[Innova] Last non mod disc that Innova produced?

[Meulen]

All that for a 1-Star thread... :thmbup:

 

[Aim For The Chains]

do you work in disc golf molding? love the info.

 

[Meulen]

do you work in disc golf molding? love the info.

Unfortunately, no. I have a B.S. in Plastics Engineering Technology, and work at a facility that does a lot of injection molding, but no discs. I think it's only a matter of time before I bite the bullet and have a mold built, though.

 

[Aim For The Chains]

nice, look forward to the future posts!

 

[klmdg]

Meulen, that was awesome. :clap:

Basically, a PD would be 66% Firebird, having its own unique cavity?

 

[Flick Maniac]

^out of which comes sunshine so it flies faster, if you believe the DGR lore

 

[tbird888]

The sunshine is not a myth...I've seen it (for five years now)

 

[PMantle]

Here's where I try to explain away the "spacer". I added a spacer, shown in pink. As with the green area before, the yellow can be thought of as both the disc and the negative space the plastic will fill. The spacer I added is 0.100" thick. You can see the nose is now more blunt. However, adding a spacer effectively shifts the cavity plate by 0.100", so the flight plate is also now 0.100" thicker, for a total of 0.170". I personally have never handled a production disc with a flight plate that thick.]

I was handling a Dominator the other day, and even in Blizzard, it was 175. Pretty blunt nose compared to many other of the high speed stuff. Makes me wonder if the extra weight is due to what you are talking about above.

 

[JedV]

Muelen, those are seriously some of the best posts on DGCR. Kudos!

 

[Discette]

Lastly, here is a video that shows a short animation. When the mold opens the cavity and the stripper plate travel together until the stripper plate reaches the end of travel dictated by shoulder bolts. The cavity continues to open to allow room for the disc to be removed. Using either a robot or an operator the disc can then be removed from the stripper plate. Depending on where the undercut in the mold is added, the disc may continue to travel with the cavity after the stripper plate has stopped, where the disc would then be removed from the cavity plate instead.

Meulen -

Nice! Did you create all the graphics and the animation? It is great that you are taking the time to explain some of the fundamentals of injection molding to players. I am not at liberty to do that, but I can comment on your posts.


The video correctly depicts the components of the three part mold. All of the other drawings are a good representation except for including a "spacer". Again, no "spacers" are ever used in the production of any Innova/Discmania/Millennium discs. I highly doubt spacers are used by other companies using three parts molds. Any differences between very similar discs are due to different mold parts, not extra mold parts.

 

[Aim For The Chains]

^so are you at liberty to discuss or not? make up your mind.... Dude does a bunch of work to go along with a post from someone else who appeared to work at Innova and yet they both are crazy?

 

[Ender175]

I was handling a Dominator the other day, and even in Blizzard, it was 175. Pretty blunt nose compared to many other of the high speed stuff. Makes me wonder if the extra weight is due to what you are talking about above.

The flight plate on my dominator is just as thin and susceptible to shear forces as the rest of my Gstar drivers, so I'm guessing no.

 

[Meulen]

Meulen -

Nice! Did you create all the graphics and the animation? It is great that you are taking the time to explain some of the fundamentals of injection molding to players. I am not at liberty to do that, but I can comment on your posts.


The video correctly depicts the components of the three part mold. All of the other drawings are a good representation except for including a "spacer". Again, no "spacers" are ever used in the production of any Innova/Discmania/Millennium discs. I highly doubt spacers are used by other companies using three parts molds. Any differences between very similar discs are due to different mold parts, not extra mold parts.

Thank you, and yes, I created all the graphics and animation. I just want to clarify, I don't believe "spacers" exist either. I had to go back and check, but I did state "Hence, I still don't believe "spacers" are utilized to modify molds. Maybe I should have titled that section "Myth Busters!" I just wanted to show the hypothetical situation and explain why we don't see discs that are made with "spacers".

 

[Toro71]

May be more trouble than it's worth, but this info (and actually some pages of other threads over the last couple years) have interesting info about molding discs and should be its own thread vs. buried in this one...?

 

[Stardoggy]

To add on to what Meulen has already described...a disc is a pretty simple injection molded part. It's why I've always said that I'm sure most disc variation is due to things outside the realm of the mold (humidity, cycle time, trimming, etc).

Right now, I'm working on designing a 48" long injection molded support boot, that's (on average) .080" thick and wants to warp all over the place. The tool alone is about $400k.

 

[Discette]

^so are you at liberty to discuss or not? make up your mind.... Dude does a bunch of work to go along with a post from someone else who appeared to work at Innova and yet they both are crazy?

I am not allowed to explain exactly how INNOVA makes discs since it is proprietary information. However, I can make general comments when someone else explains the fundamentals of injection molding.

When did I imply two people were crazy? I don't even see any posts in this thread - or quoted in this thread - from anyone that works or worked at INNOVA West (unless they are using an alias I don't recognize).

well I can tell you from experience the people who bag PD's and firebirds don't generally use them the same ways. I know lots of players who use tb's and PD's somewhat interchangeably though given the plastics and wear. Unless you have a FR beefy CPD I don't see it really flying like a firebird ever even if you want to try and point out it shares the firebird bottom its the top that matters--OP asked about Innova discs and the anhyzer top is/was specific to discmania. Pretty sure PD is Jussi's baby not DaveD.....

I can also state that the above comment in bold is incorrect. Dave Dunipace designs all the discs for Innova, Discmania and Millennium. Jussi does not do any of the disc designing. Innova also owns all the machines, molds and mold parts used to produce all these discs.

Again, I can share general information, not specifics.

 

[PMantle]

^so are you at liberty to discuss or not? make up your mind.... Dude does a bunch of work to go along with a post from someone else who appeared to work at Innova and yet they both are crazy?

downvote :thmbdown:

 

[treehorn]

Groove..... :doh:

 

[tbird888]

I can also state that the above comment in bold is incorrect. Dave Dunipace designs all the discs for Innova, Discmania and Millennium. Jussi does not do any of the disc designing.

I absolutely adore the PD and have for years. I had heard a story that Jussi wasn't happy with the original mold, and the Anhyzer top (not using molding terms, I know) was born from that. Does this mean it was Dave only behind the entire development of the mold?

Thank you for the information you have provided. I love this topic.

 

[ZAMson]

I can dig what Meulen said about the terminology of insert/spacer. Wherever "spacer" came from, I think of it as a conceptual wing shape element rather than the formal name of a mold part that just magically adds height to the edge of the mold but nowhere else. We don't talk about the stripper and cavity of a disc, we talk about the wing and the shoulder and the nose and the spacers... shapes, not mold parts. However the molds are constructed, there are shapes that are reused and matched/modified with offsets to construct various models. Those are plain to see as they leave flashing, and you can directly compare things like Sidewinder moldings with narrow or fat noses. I'm interested in the shapes and how their variations affect flight, like 1000x more than I'm interested in how each company constructs their molds.