Discover new ways to elevate your game with the updated DGCourseReview app! It's entirely free and enhanced with features shaped by user feedback to ensure your best experience on the course. (App Store or Google Play)
Second: As Meulen also correctly stated, there is no such thing as a "spacer" when molding discs. This is a simple basic fact of injection molding that disc golfers don't want to believe.
I know this is Discraft/DGA (I can't think of any Innova molds right now to use as an example), but in the case of something like the Magnet and Titanic where the claim is the Titanic is the Magnet with a nose spacer, would that be a new mold (or mold piece) adding that extra height to the mold?
I was always in the spacer camp thinking something like a gasket was attached to one side of the mold, and my curiosity is piqued now. I'd always taken that opinion due to thoughts about the cost to develop and create mold pieces.
innova molds are 3-piece: cavity (makes the top of disc and partial nose), stripper (makes the wing and partial nose), and core (makes the underside). they also have spacers that can go between stripper and cavity to make the nose beefier.
they don't stamp everything at Innova East... West factory has a stamping operation as well. i think it's more split like East Coast handles DX stamping, or something like that. the backup for stock and custom stamping at Innova is sometimes a huge issue, because it affects custom order timelines and innova/mill/discmania production schedules.
also, discs can sit around for YEARS before stamping. it was 18+ months between when the 1.1 MOLF were run and when i made the production stamp. in that case the run was made over a year before the planned release.
also when custom-stamped orders come in, you can often find discs that are from non-current runs. they keep a massive stockpile of blanks, and stock-stamp or custom-stamp them as demand requires. same thing with 11x-era discs getting a 12x stamp... **** happens.
First: As Meulen correctly stated upthread, discs can only share parts with disc in the same "family". In other words, a disc with a 2.4 cm rim width can only share parts with another 2.4 disc. (In other words, there is no way for the Destroyer (2.2cm rim) to share parts with the Vulcan (2.4cm rim) to create Destrulcans.
If I get some time after work tomorrow I'll throw together a mold design and throw in the "spacer" to better explain why I don't think they are used. The one thing to remember is that if a spacer was in fact used, it not only makes the nose more blunt, but it adds a witness line to the leading edge and makes the flight plate thickness increase by the thickness of the spacer. I'm not saying this can't be done, I just don't believe it is practical.
I know this is Discraft/DGA (I can't think of any Innova molds right now to use as an example), but in the case of something like the Magnet and Titanic where the claim is the Titanic is the Magnet with a nose spacer, would that be a new mold (or mold piece) adding that extra height to the mold?
I was always in the spacer camp thinking something like a gasket was attached to one side of the mold, and my curiosity is piqued now. I'd always taken that opinion due to thoughts about the cost to develop and create mold pieces.
An interesting experiment would be to take the overall height difference between the Magnet and Titanic, as well as the difference in flight plate thickness. If a spacer was used, the delta for each measurement should be identical.
Meulen, you said a stripper plate could be used, and Leopard was confident in their use. Could you exain those too? Like Tbird, my curiosity is piqued.
If I get some time after work tomorrow I'll throw together a mold design and throw in the "spacer" to better explain why I don't think they are used. The one thing to remember is that if a spacer was in fact used, it not only makes the nose more blunt, but it adds a witness line to the leading edge and makes the flight plate thickness increase by the thickness of the spacer. I'm not saying this can't be done, I just don't believe it is practical.
Right, unless they use a "taller" core to get the flight plate back to the original thickness. But then the entire disc would be taller, with a deeper rim. And I don't think that's the case. Plus it defeats the assumed purpose of the "spacer" to keep costs down.
I think it's more likely that the discs assumed to use "spacers" really just use a different top, with a deeper outer edge and less curvature in the shoulder area. But that's just my educated guess.
I have designed mold tools in the past, but they were very different shapes than this. I also did some (non DG-related) work with Quest many years ago when they were first coming up with discs. Those were all two-part aluminum molds.
Meulen, you said a stripper plate could be used, and Leopard was confident in their use. Could you exain those too? Like Tbird, my curiosity is piqued.
Pictures will explain it all tomorrow. My guess would be that 95% of discs are made with stripper rings. Its a vital component considering how discs are manufactured.
Right, unless they use a "taller" core to get the flight plate back to the original thickness. But then the entire disc would be taller, with a deeper rim. And I don't think that's the case. Plus it defeats the assumed purpose of the "spacer" to keep costs down.
Very true. The draft angle of the taller core would have to match that of the stripper plate to create a proper shutoff. And as you stated, it defeats the purpose of keeping costs down.
With the number of discs that a manufacturer sells, I really find it hard to believe they are cutting corners during the design phase. Most of the established manufacturers probably have an extra thousand dollars or so to design/tweak the mold to their liking.
I wonder if someone originally trying to describe an insert used the word "spacer" instead. An insert could be used in a stripper plate and swapped out quickly to essentially create a different geometry for the wing of the disc.
I'm glad Discette "validated" some of my thoughts. Thanks for that! :thmbup: Because someone used the word "spacer" on the internet, whether correct or incorrect, it will probably never go away, even if Dave D. visited DGCR and shot down the theory himself.
No, you were trying to tell people a PD is a "just a faster Teebird" ... when it has a Firebird bottom, nothing to do with a Teebird, and doesn't share the top with that disc either. You also let us know "It's actually a Discmania mold ..." as if you don't understand who makes Discmania discs and molds. The only person confused as to your fanboy routine is you.
well I can tell you from experience the people who bag PD's and firebirds don't generally use them the same ways. I know lots of players who use tb's and PD's somewhat interchangeably though given the plastics and wear. Unless you have a FR beefy CPD I don't see it really flying like a firebird ever even if you want to try and point out it shares the firebird bottom its the top that matters--OP asked about Innova discs and the anhyzer top is/was specific to discmania. Pretty sure PD is Jussi's baby not DaveD.
I already answered you in the parallel universe. Enjoy your champ PDs, if you don't like them, trade them to me!
To answer the question more directly, the disc is the most versatile in golf in terms of line and distance. Add that to the fact that it now comes in 3 plastics, and its a minimalist's wet dream. The Star loses HSS, and keeps its LSS, so it turns into a great S turn driver. The P starts out like a new faster Teebird and breaks into a frozen rope quickly, and then wears VERY slow from there. Teebird, TL, Orc, Starfire, Valk, Viking, all in one.
Bear with me as I try to explain the basic concept behind how a mold works for a disc. As always, if you have any questions at the end, I'd be more than happy to answer them.
I'd like to preface this long post by stating that I intentionally left out almost all mold components to those that are familiar with injections molds. This includes leader pins, sprue bushing, vents, springs, cooling channels, clamping plates, etc. etc. Here we go!
First we'll start with a key: Red Plate = Cavity
White Plate = Stripper Plate Blue Plate = Core Green = Disc Pink = "Spacer" Yellow = Modified Disc
Below is a cut-away view of the mold. Refer to the key above if necessary. The cavity makes the top surface of the disc, the core makes the inside rim and underside of the flight plate, and the stripper plate makes the underside of the wing and in this case, half of the leading edge. Any place where 3 colors intersect in the image, there will either be a parting line (Red/White/Green), or a witness line (Blue/White/Green). The green area can be thought of as either the disc, or negative space the plastic will fill to create the disc.
The next image shows a cut-away as if the mold were opening. The stripper plate "strips" the part, in this case a disc, off the core, or plug. This is usually spring actuated with shoulder bolts to prevent over travel. As pictured, the disc stuck to the cavity plate, and would remain there until removed by an operator. This view shows the stripper plate geometry a little better.
Here's where I try to explain away the "spacer". I added a spacer, shown in pink. As with the green area before, the yellow can be thought of as both the disc and the negative space the plastic will fill. The spacer I added is 0.100" thick. You can see the nose is now more blunt. However, adding a spacer effectively shifts the cavity plate by 0.100", so the flight plate is also now 0.100" thicker, for a total of 0.170". I personally have never handled a production disc with a flight plate that thick. Hence, I still don't believe "spacers" are utilized to modify molds.
Next I'll throw in two "exploded views" just because. You'll notice the stripper plate shown doesn't look too different from the Discraft screen-shots I posted earlier.
Lastly, here is a video that shows a short animation. When the mold opens the cavity and the stripper plate travel together until the stripper plate reaches the end of travel dictated by shoulder bolts. The cavity continues to open to allow room for the disc to be removed. Using either a robot or an operator the disc can then be removed from the stripper plate. Depending on where the undercut in the mold is added, the disc may continue to travel with the cavity after the stripper plate has stopped, where the disc would then be removed from the cavity plate instead.
