[Recommend] Looking for 8 speed slightly overstable drivers

[Keith H]

If you like the Thunderbird but want slightly more over stable, the Q- Orion LF is one you should try if you have not. Quantum plastic, heavier weight.
I agree the Terra also looks interesting for that slot

 

[flatflip]

Seeing the way Dickerson shredded WR Jackson with one at the Champions Cup, Banzai would be my first stop. It's got a very particular hand feel, though -- nothing like the TH/TB.

"Speed" is a relative concept. While innova has typically correlated it with rim width, that is not always the case. If the thundys are going too far, Teebird 3 has the same shot but shorter. given the same amount of air under it. And it is a really satisfying shot to throw.

Innova's typical answer to a stability slot between the Teebird and the Firebird was the Eagle. To their shame, they have not come out with a "3" version of it, but the inncolor stars and a lot of the CG Barsbys fit the flat top description.

If the thundies are flying too far, the OLF will, too -- perhaps more so.

Will be curious to hear feedback on the Terra.

 

[gwsmallwood]

I have tried Volts, and they're not quite high speed stable enough for what I'm looking for. I'll need to find someone who has a Votum so I can try it out, same with the Huia.

My local pro shop has plenty of Alphas. I have felt them and they're quite nice. Plenty beefy too. I'll have to measure one next time I go.

Terra has peaked my interest too. Slightly more overstable than a Thunderbird can work as well.

What plastics have you tried for the Volt? I have a 173g Neutron Volt that I found slightly used, and it fills this exact role in my bag. I'm forehand dominant, and this Volt has become my absolute favorite disc for those 265' - 290' shots. I can hit it really hard and as long as I release it flat or with a touch of hyzer, it has a mild, but reliably fade at the end. Add some more hyzer and it holds it and gives me a much larger fade.

In the past month or so I can't even count the number of near aces I've had with this disc.
I'm probably going to buy some more in some different plastics to see if I can use the same mold for my straight and slightly understable fairway slots.

 

[twistedraven]

I've only tried the Volt in Neutron plastic. It flied like a seasoned Thunderbird to me. A little flip up, good finish-- very forward pushing. Teebird/3 are a little too straight for what I'm looking for. I probably should have just said overstable in my title, but I didn't want to get Firebird-type disc recommendations. I have not tried Halo Thunderbirds yet either.

 

[hisdudeness47]

Teebird 3 is not a "true speed 8" as it has a 17 mm rim like the Teebird

Sent from my M2004J19C using Tapatalk

Are these specs inaccurate?

 

[twistedraven]

The Teebird3 has the same 17mm rim as the Teebird it's based on, just a flatter top. Innova figures the flatter top gives it effectively 1 higher speed but 1 less glide. I find Teebirds and Teebird3s to fly the same distance.

How does the Orion LF compare to the Firebird and/or Getaway?

 

[Lurp Nuts]

"True 8 speed" doesn't mean anything. I'm all for being analytical about disc choices, but at a point, it becomes needlessly self-defeating. Just like the PD is a 10 speed thing. It has the same rim as a Firebird, but the Firebird acts more like a speed 8 or even 7.

 

[EllEstar]

The Teebird3 has the same 17mm rim as the Teebird it's based on, just a flatter top. Innova figures the flatter top gives it effectively 1 higher speed but 1 less glide. I find Teebirds and Teebird3s to fly the same distance.

How does the Orion LF compare to the Firebird and/or Getaway?

If you want to get semantic then it has a 17.6-17.7mm rim and the Thunderbird has an 18.8-18.9mm rim, so about a 1.2mm difference.

 

[twistedraven]

"True 8 speed" doesn't mean anything. I'm all for being analytical about disc choices, but at a point, it becomes needlessly self-defeating. Just like the PD is a 10 speed thing. It has the same rim as a Firebird, but the Firebird acts more like a speed 8 or even 7.

Yes, which is why I'm in the market for anything that's a little more overstable than my Thunderbirds as well. The core issue is that I find the Thunderbirds a little too long, so I want something that isn't as meathooky as a Firebird, or a little more overstable than a Teebird, that can in effect be a little less long. The solution might be as simple as just find a really overstable run of Thunderbird. I haven't tried an Eagle yet, so I don't know how it compares in stability to a Teebird.

Innova seems to not care as much about rim width to speed as well and more about effective distance or marketing, since they rate the 23mm rimmed Shryke a speed 13, and the 23mm rimmed Destroyer a speed 12.

If you want to get semantic then it has a 17.6-17.7mm rim and the Thunderbird has an 18.8-18.9mm rim, so about a 1.2mm difference.

17.7mm for a Teebird/3 and 19.2mm for a Thunderbird actually. A little bit of Trivia, but the 10 speed Anax actually has a smaller rim than the Thunderbird! Only by a hair though. Either way, I find these current Thunderbirds I have to be the same flight of a Teebird, but a good 30-40 feet longer, so that 1.5mm difference in rim width is rather huge.

 

[discerdoo]

Get a PD if it matches your stringent rim width requirements. It's always felt like a 9 speed to me.

 

[flatflip]

The Teebird3 has the same 17mm rim as the Teebird it's based on, just a flatter top. Innova figures the flatter top gives it effectively 1 higher speed but 1 less glide. I find Teebirds and Teebird3s to fly the same distance.

How does the Orion LF compare to the Firebird and/or Getaway?

OLF is a Firebird wing with a Wraith top. It has a little more S to its flight but finishes reliably.

If you want to get semantic then it has a 17.6-17.7mm rim and the Thunderbird has an 18.8-18.9mm rim, so about a 1.2mm difference.

I don't think innova's specs are actually that stringent. Going from their distance drivers, they'll let stuff out the door that is up to 2mm off the approved design. It's not that it is a different mold, just a lack of QC.

 

[EllEstar]

17.7mm for a Teebird/3 and 19.2mm for a Thunderbird actually. A little bit of Trivia, but the 10 speed Anax actually has a smaller rim than the Thunderbird! Only by a hair though. Either way, I find these current Thunderbirds I have to be the same flight of a Teebird, but a good 30-40 feet longer, so that 1.5mm difference in rim width is rather huge.

Yours might be, but that's not been my experience, probably a difference in runs.

I don't think innova's specs are actually that stringent. Going from their distance drivers, they'll let stuff out the door that is up to 2mm off the approved design. It's not that it is a different mold, just a lack of QC.

Every mold I've measured has had less than .5mm variance in rim width, regardless of plastic or run. I think variation between PDGA approved specs and actual production runs can be down to measurement error on behalf of PDGA, rounding, plastic the original test runs were made in or new molds.

Say you send the PDGA a Destroyer in DX plastic for measuring. The actual rim width is 22.6mm. PDGA measures it out as 22.4mm and rounds it down to 22mm. Later you produce them in Star and Champion which shrink less when they cool so the actual rim width ends up being 23mm for those.

Get a PD if it matches your stringent rim width requirements. It's always felt like a 9 speed to me.

This is a good answer if you just want to find something that flies like a beefy thunderbird without buying a few or going to a store.

 

[twistedraven]

I have tried one of the new C-Line PDs from Discmania. Supposedly they're straight for a PD? Anyways, I threw it further than my Thunderbird. I have not tried the most recent Innova made PDs.

And hm, I used to be a big Thunderbird thrower, so have quite a few of them in differing plastics and runs (Star/Champ/Color Glow/Gstar). They all measure between 19.1mm and 19.2mm. I don't have anything over 5 years old though.

OLF is a Firebird wing with a Wraith top. It has a little more S to its flight but finishes reliably.

I probably wouldn't like it then. I want no high speed turn.

I don't think innova's specs are actually that stringent. Going from their distance drivers, they'll let stuff out the door that is up to 2mm off the approved design. It's not that it is a different mold, just a lack of QC.

I find this hard to believe. 2mm difference in rim width is gigantic-- we're talking twice the difference between a Wraith and a Destroyer, and almost the difference between a Wraith and a Boss. Sure, Innova can pump out a certain mold that can have either a very concaved, flat, or convexed wing, or a flat or pop-top flight plate, but differences in rim width should be super minimal.

 

[hisdudeness47]

I think you should try a Halo or MF Teebird3 and see what happens.

 

[Alexplz]

True speed 8s are few and far between - Teebird3s I would consider speed 7 based on rim width.

Westside just announced a new one called the Bear - maybe check that one out!

 

[twistedraven]

I received a Neutron Terra in the mail last night and gave it a good tryout this morning during my round. Rim measures in at 18.3mm. Super high PLH and flat topped compared to any Thunderbird I have, even my Thundervant run Thunderbird. Feel in the hand is awkward at first, but super amazing after you get used it it (only took a couple throws for me).

As far as flight goes, I have mostly positive impressions, but some mixed feelings. The Terra has a nice forward push, is VERY high speed stable, but also has a Firebird-esque dumping fade to it, rather than the panning fade of a Teebird/Thunderbird/or even Destroyers (granted I only throw pop-top Destroyers so I have no clue how flat Destroyers fade). The Terra's aggressive fade helps control distance, but at the same time I wish it had a little more carry/glide on that fade for more lateral play and just a tiny bit more distance.

My Star and Champion Thunderbirds pushed a little too long, and got somewhat squirrelly into headwinds above 10-15mph. My preferred release is hard and flat, and I'm super confident with the Terra in not turning over into headwinds, yet at the same time I find it a little longer than Firebirds, but with a similar flight, only a little more forward pushing.

I was not expecting the Terra to be as low glide as it is, but I'm also mostly satisfied with it, and I'm wondering how it cycles when seasoned in over time. For now I took out my Star Thunderbird in my minimalist bag, and replaced it with the Neutron Terra, so my OS Fairways are a Champion Thunderbird and the Neutron Terra.

I will say the Terra is EXTREMELY fun to throw on flex lines, even into headwinds. Basically you get Firebird dependability, but more distance potential. I can see why James Conrad wanted this disc to be made, as he loved flexing his really OS runs of Thunderbirds.

 

[strunk flugget]

I received a Neutron Terra in the mail last night and gave it a good tryout this morning during my round. Rim measures in at 18.3mm. Super high PLH and flat topped compared to any Thunderbird I have, even my Thundervant run Thunderbird. Feel in the hand is awkward at first, but super amazing after you get used it it (only took a couple throws for me).

As far as flight goes, I have mostly positive impressions, but some mixed feelings. The Terra has a nice forward push, is VERY high speed stable, but also has a Firebird-esque dumping fade to it, rather than the panning fade of a Teebird/Thunderbird/or even Destroyers (granted I only throw pop-top Destroyers so I have no clue how flat Destroyers fade). The Terra's aggressive fade helps control distance, but at the same time I wish it had a little more carry/glide on that fade for more lateral play and just a tiny bit more distance.

My Star and Champion Thunderbirds pushed a little too long, and got somewhat squirrelly into headwinds above 10-15mph. My preferred release is hard and flat, and I'm super confident with the Terra in not turning over into headwinds, yet at the same time I find it a little longer than Firebirds, but with a similar flight, only a little more forward pushing.

I was not expecting the Terra to be as low glide as it is, but I'm also mostly satisfied with it, and I'm wondering how it cycles when seasoned in over time. For now I took out my Star Thunderbird in my minimalist bag, and replaced it with the Neutron Terra, so my OS Fairways are a Champion Thunderbird and the Neutron Terra.

I will say the Terra is EXTREMELY fun to throw on flex lines, even into headwinds. Basically you get Firebird dependability, but more distance potential. I can see why James Conrad wanted this disc to be made, as he loved flexing his really OS runs of Thunderbirds.

I felt like, for what the Terra is, it has a decent amount of glide to it. Once it beats in a little bit that glide should become more apparent. For the same reasons I really love the disc, it is so dependable even in a head wind. With the head wind it does kind of still have a panning hyzer finish but not uncontrollably so.

 

[twistedraven]

I felt like, for what the Terra is, it has a decent amount of glide to it. Once it beats in a little bit that glide should become more apparent. For the same reasons I really love the disc, it is so dependable even in a head wind. With the head wind it does kind of still have a panning hyzer finish but not uncontrollably so.

Yes, I'll play with it some more and see how it is after the first week. I'm not too sure how MVP discs beat-in, but if they're like Innova stuff, they have an initial break-in where they get closer to their flight numbers, then they have a super slow beat-in process.

 

[Dr. Steve Brule]

I'd suggest a fresh CH Teebird or a domey Eagle (X) for this slot. I throw around 430-450ft atm and found recent flat Eagles to be kinda straighter than expected including latest Barsby one. Innova Power Disc (Phantom Sword) is probably like your Thunderbirds, mostly straight with a fade, or thats how it acts for me. Koling Thunderbirds are more overstable though.
One suggestion would be throwing something like a Gator for this slot. It has a very nice hook-like fade and at least I can push them pretty far on a flat release.

 

[Dr. Steve Brule]

Or just throw a CH Firebird when you don't have the room to go long with your Thunderbirds if you wan't to go ham on every throw.