Low speed turnover

[Blobfish]

For a low speed turnover shot in the 100-200 foot range, do you use an understable disc, and throw it flat to let it naturally turn and ride that turnover line? Or do you pick a more stable line riding disc like a mako3 and give it a touch of anny and let it follow that?

I'm not talking about bigger distances, I'm specifically looking for a finesse shot where I want to use a backhand instead of a forehand. This morning I went out to a field with a stack of sol's, a mako3, and an archer.
From a standstill and throwing with a flat release at a 150-200 foot power range, the sol's all turned a decent bit, and faded a tad just as it plopped to the ground. The mako3 was dead straight, and the archer turned a good bit but landed flat.
Putting a touch of anny on the throw let the mako turn further than the archer did thrown flat, while still landing softly (not turning over)

So is it more common "best practice" to utilize the turn of the disc to shape your shot (if you're trying to get a long turnover) or is it common to put anny on everything you want to make go right (for RHBH) right out of the gate? I throw a lot of backhand flex shots with an overstable disc, so for me, I fall into that latter category and I think from my experiment this morning, the mako3 seems to be the best fit for my game, but my question has more to do with am I missing something by not thinking the other way?

Edit: for what it's worth, I can't get my zflx buzzz to do what I want here. It flies exactly how I want it to on an anny line, but I am talking about a throw that rides the turn line more than that and still lands flat

 

[seedlings]

Most anything putter-ish will turnover on anhyzer for that short distance - P2, Deputy, Spin, Warden, Judge. I practice them in the yard. Biggest problem for me is having enough space left off the tee (rhbh). There's ALWAYS a tree there.

Edit: if I'm trying to let the disc do the work on a flat release, I use a Discraft Stratus. That Sol should be great too. Have to find the right power to throw.

 

[SaROCaM]

IMO the "best practice" is to know your discs and be able to adjust your angles/height as necessary. Either approach can work, so whichever you are more consistent with is the better one.

If how a disc flies depends on a combination of what the thrower does and what the disc does, I'd rather have the outcome more dependent on what the thrower does. Therefore I would pick the stable disc and manipulate it to how I want it to fly. I feel like throwing a flippy disc leaves too much of the outcome dependent on the disc. Basically I want to control the disc. Some people prefer to have the disc do the work. Again, it is a preference, and whichever is more consistent for each player is the way to go.

For the type of shot you describe, I throw a stable putter with whichever combination of anhyzer and height is needed.

 

[Blobfish]

IMO the "best practice" is to know your discs and be able to adjust your angles/height as necessary. Either approach can work, so whichever you are more consistent with is the better one.

If how a disc flies depends on a combination of what the thrower does and what the disc does, I'd rather have the outcome more dependent on what the thrower does. Therefore I would pick the stable disc and manipulate it to how I want it to fly. I feel like throwing a flippy disc leaves too much of the outcome dependent on the disc. Basically I want to control the disc. Some people prefer to have the disc do the work. Again, it is a preference, and whichever is more consistent for each player is the way to go.

For the type of shot you describe, I throw a stable putter with whichever combination of anhyzer and height is needed.

That's my thought exactly, but I wasn't sure if I was missing something by thinking that way. I didn't want to buy any more discs just for this and the mako3 rides that line at low speed very well.

 

[twistedraven]

I take a 161g Star Mirage, give it 30-50% power while throwing flat and nose down, and it will turn over naturally in that 100-150 foot range, and never come out of it.

 

[curmudgeonDwindle]

IMO the "best practice" is to know your discs and be able to adjust your angles/height as necessary. Either approach can work, so whichever you are more consistent with is the better one.

If how a disc flies depends on a combination of what the thrower does and what the disc does, I'd rather have the outcome more dependent on what the thrower does. Therefore I would pick the stable disc and manipulate it to how I want it to fly. I feel like throwing a flippy disc leaves too much of the outcome dependent on the disc. Basically I want to control the disc. Some people prefer to have the disc do the work. Again, it is a preference, and whichever is more consistent for each player is the way to go.

For the type of shot you describe, I throw a stable putter with whichever combination of anhyzer and height is needed.

This ^ fellow's onto something.
'Turnover' is a term generally used for shots thrown with more force - the thrower 'forces' the disc to turn with speed or the the disc is 'under stable' at that speed and 'turns' by itself.

For a situation as you described, a 'touch shot' (and for almost all shots in this distance range), a slower speed shot is in order. Neutral discs work well for this situation and they may be thrown on a natural 'anhyzer' curve, which is easier with a slightly higher line. 'Touch' also implies getting an accurate feel for specific distances.

 

[DiscFifty]

I also was on a quest for a 200ft and under turn over disc a while back and found out putters are perfect for this. Magic, Deputy out of the box otherwise beat the hell out of one of your favorite throwing putters.

 

[ILUVSMGS18]

So this is something I've been expirimenting with myself recently. My Sol and Comet do similar lines, but take different ways to get there. Sol needs a bit on anny for me, while the Comet will float over naturally if I don't give it any hyzer.

 

[ru4por]

Discraft X Putt'r

 

[klodkrawler05]

I haven't thrown a sol but I do bag a champ mako3 and both a beat up ESP archer and a fairly fresh Z archer.

I'd use any of the 3 discs for that shot depending on the situation, On the shorter end of that distance range I'd also use a fierce or any similarly understable putter.

My ESP archer is the least stable of the 3 options, so I'd use that in a situation where I either want to start on anny and have the disc to stay on anny all the way to the ground. Or I want to start the disc flat to try to push out pretty far around something and still work back on anny to the pin. I'd use the Mako3 in situations where I want a similar shot to the ESP archer but instead of anny into the ground I want it to fight out and stall, which makes for a softer landing and less roll away. The Z archer works as a step above the mako in stability but for 100-200' approaches I don't find myself reaching for it. If the anny line requires more angle than the mako can fight out of I'll switch to a more stable midrange/approach disc like the wasp or zone.

The Z archer being the most stable of the 3 gets pulled out for the longer 200'+ shots, I can throw it flat at 200' and it will slowly drift with just a touch of hyzer at the end. I've found I can play with the height of the shot to help control how long it has to hyzer back towards the center. It also has just enough stability that I also use it on a severe hyzer angle for a flip up turnover for tee shots in the 270-320' range where I know my forehand doesn't have the distance.

 

[discerdoo]

beat the hell out of one of your favorite throwing putters.

JB Roach been in the bag about 18 months. I really need to start beating another one in.

Also will throw a powered down Comet with a touch of anny depending on...things.

 

[autocrosscrx]

I have a first run Z Sol that I no longer bag. It was my most thrown disc for a while, but it is super touchy for me. Throw it at maybe 80% power and hyzer flips to a straight to fade shot. Throw it at 85% and it just keeps turning. I love the feel and the flight is beautiful when I get it right, though.

As far as the question, it really depends on the hole. If there isn't really any trouble around the basket, I like to throw the more understable disc. My most frequent mistake is releasing with too much hyzer angle. I'll try to throw anny and release flat or I'll try to throw flat and release hyzer. So my misses are usually bigger with the more stable disc. If there is trouble to the right, I throw the more stable disc. If there is trouble to the left, I throw the understable disc.

 

[DiscFifty]

JB Roach been in the bag about 18 months. I really need to start beating another one in.

Also will throw a powered down Comet with a touch of anny depending on...things.

Do you have any experience comparing a Mako3 to a Comet? I've always wondered if they were pretty much the same disc. Thx.

 

[Agricolae]

I take a 161g Star Mirage, give it 30-50% power while throwing flat and nose down, and it will turn over naturally in that 100-150 foot range, and never come out of it.

Agreed. Star Mirage is a great short-range turnover disc. Its understability adds to glide making it good for longer, low-ceiling, laser putts. It is also fun to throw on ridiculous +300-ft hyser-flip lines (not necessarily recommended for competitive play.

Star Mirage came to mind immediately when I read the title "Low speed turnover".

 

[aphilso1]

Another vote for just using a neutral putter, thrown with anhyzer.

 

[JuanA]

I take a 161g Star Mirage, give it 30-50% power while throwing flat and nose down, and it will turn over naturally in that 100-150 foot range, and never come out of it.

Agreed. Star Mirage is a great short-range turnover disc. Its understability adds to glide making it good for longer, low-ceiling, laser putts. It is also fun to throw on ridiculous +300-ft hyser-flip lines (not necessarily recommended for competitive play.

Star Mirage came to mind immediately when I read the title "Low speed turnover".

I'm with both of you on this. When I see 'turnover', I'm thinking of a disc that doesn't need to be put on an anny to make the line. A Mirage can pop up to flat with a very low ceiling, and can start turning without any room needed on the left (for RHBH). A Mirage will also carry that turn to the ground without fading back.

I also agree with the player controlling the shot instead of relying on the disc, but for a sub 200' throw a Star Mirage is a nice disc to carry.

 

[Central Scrutinizer]

From 150' I do a fan grip standstill with an array of understable putters depending on how extreme the turn is needed. I even bag a beat to hell Soft Magnet from 1999 that will do slow floaty turnover magic at short distances. I've made more 50 to 100-footers with that thing than I can remember going left to right around obstacles. Hit one yesterday as a matter of fact. Someday it will disintegrate into powder on the spot. I've been saying that for ten years and it continues to live on!

Normal annies from that 150' are fan grip standstills with a Fierce giving it a touch of annie angle, so long as there isn't a moderate headwind. I sometimes will throw a little flick RHFH with my Harp if the situation calls for it (headwind or low ceiling or whatever). I'm getting better at that. Never could RHFH putters until this recent comeback to serious play.

From 200' it's different. I can get putters there on an annie, but that's for practicing form usually. I find that a mid is more forgiving predictability-wise for me, so I'm usually throwing my 2001 Champ Stingray for that slow turnover shot, or if I need it higher and/or a sharper angle, an X-Stratus, or a Fuse if I need another 30 feet.

 

[azplaya25]

I'm with both of you on this. When I see 'turnover', I'm thinking of a disc that doesn't need to be put on an anny to make the line. A Mirage can pop up to flat with a very low ceiling, and can start turning without any room needed on the left (for RHBH). A Mirage will also carry that turn to the ground without fading back.

I also agree with the player controlling the shot instead of relying on the disc, but for a sub 200' throw a Star Mirage is a nice disc to carry.

Never thrown a mirage but I have a super beat PnA aviar that I can do this with. Problem I've found is it's pretty touchy to throw a flippy disc low, get it to go right but not cut roll. If you have height to work with you can throw nose up and keep it from flipping. With a low ceiling, prefer a little flick shot with a neutral putter/mid. Kinda makes me want to try a mirage....

 

[aphilso1]

Never thrown a mirage but I have a super beat PnA aviar that I can do this with. Problem I've found is it's pretty touchy to throw a flippy disc low, get it to go right but not cut roll. If you have height to work with you can throw nose up and keep it from flipping. With a low ceiling, prefer a little flick shot with a neutral putter/mid. Kinda makes me want to try a mirage....

I think you hit the nail on the head. If the desired line is high, then throwing a beat up neutral putter on anny is the way to go. If ceiling is an issue, then forehand really does seem like the correct choice.

 

[armiller]

For a low speed turnover shot in the 100-200 foot range, do you use an understable disc, and throw it flat to let it naturally turn and ride that turnover line? Or do you pick a more stable line riding disc like a mako3 and give it a touch of anny and let it follow that?

I'm not talking about bigger distances, I'm specifically looking for a finesse shot where I want to use a backhand instead of a forehand. This morning I went out to a field with a stack of sol's, a mako3, and an archer.
From a standstill and throwing with a flat release at a 150-200 foot power range, the sol's all turned a decent bit, and faded a tad just as it plopped to the ground. The mako3 was dead straight, and the archer turned a good bit but landed flat.
Putting a touch of anny on the throw let the mako turn further than the archer did thrown flat, while still landing softly (not turning over)

So is it more common "best practice" to utilize the turn of the disc to shape your shot (if you're trying to get a long turnover) or is it common to put anny on everything you want to make go right (for RHBH) right out of the gate? I throw a lot of backhand flex shots with an overstable disc, so for me, I fall into that latter category and I think from my experiment this morning, the mako3 seems to be the best fit for my game, but my question has more to do with am I missing something by not thinking the other way?

Edit: for what it's worth, I can't get my zflx buzzz to do what I want here. It flies exactly how I want it to on an anny line, but I am talking about a throw that rides the turn line more than that and still lands flat

In my bag at present, I use a DX Polecat and Z Comet for RHBH shots that I want to turn right. Then I use various levels of anhyzer to manage flight. FWIW, I also bag a Soft Proton Ion (a little on the understable side as far as Ions go) and a beat-in Z Buzzz, but I don't throw them for this shot. If you're looking for recommendations, maybe I'd say start with an X Comet for easier turn and less fade.

I understand what people are saying about using the release angle/anhyzer to get the flight you want, but some situations such as low ceilings make this difficult. I think the key is using a relatively low speed and finding a disc whose turn/stability characteristics allow it to get that nice right drift or turn without fading back on you. (My Buzzz and Ion fade back too soon.) So again, for me I've been working the Polecat and Comet. They're very much "stable" discs, meaning this is more of a flat release with right hand turn than a true hyzer-flip or turnover kinda shot, but the disc's neutrality means it's not going to fade out on me too bad.

Those other discs you mentioned (Archer, Sol, Mako3) are certainly higher speed, and in premium plastics, will want to fade quickly at slower speed 100-200' shots. I've tried one Z Archer as a "Stratus" replacement, and it didn't turn nearly as much as I was hoping. Speaking of the Stratus, it's not a bad idea for this shot.