Man dies while playing disc golf

[JC17393]

So are you saying a Power Line down around 4-6PM in the afternoon in a public park would not be a number one priority? Or damn near close to a number one priority?

To make it clear, its reported that the power line being down was relayed to the power company and the fire dept around 3-4PM.

He said nothing of the sort. He merely pointed out that there is a possibility, perhaps a very good one, that there were other things that the power company deemed as greater priority than a downed line in a park.

Let's try to keep a little bit of perspective here.

If this power line was the only emergency that the power company had to attend to between the time it was reported and the time the victim encountered it, then yes, it's outrageous that it hadn't been taken care of and the power company should be held responsible for what is gross negligence.

But if this power line was one of a dozens, if not hundreds of other issues that the power company was dealing with in the aftermath of the storm, then no, it really isn't that outrageous that it was still down after 12 hours.

We don't yet know exactly what the circumstances were. We're all assuming more than we probably should. That's all KniceZ was trying to say.

 

[Osmo]

He said nothing of the sort. He merely pointed out that there is a possibility, perhaps a very good one, that there were other things that the power company deemed as greater priority than a downed line in a park.

Let's try to keep a little bit of perspective here.

If this power line was the only emergency that the power company had to attend to between the time it was reported and the time the victim encountered it, then yes, it's outrageous that it hadn't been taken care of and the power company should be held responsible for what is gross negligence.

But if this power line was one of a dozens, if not hundreds of other issues that the power company was dealing with in the aftermath of the storm, then no, it really isn't that outrageous that it was still down after 12 hours.

We don't yet know exactly what the circumstances were. We're all assuming more than we probably should. That's all KniceZ was trying to say.

And I am saying that there cant be much more prioritized over a downed power line in an OPEN PUBLIC PARK.

Lets say there was 10 down power lines, for arguments sake. Lets say they only had 10 trucks. There is not reason that 12 hours go by and it has not been turned off. Not even fixxed. Just turn that grid off.

 

[JC17393]

And I am saying that there cant be much more prioritized over a downed power line in an OPEN PUBLIC PARK.

Lets say there was 10 down power lines, for arguments sake. Lets say they only had 10 trucks. There is not reason that 12 hours go by and it has not been turned off. Not even fixxed. Just turn that grid off.

See, this is another case where you are assuming something was the case and we just don't know. The park may have been open while the line was down, but we don't know that there wasn't someone there monitoring it or warning people or even some kind of sign (I'm assuming there were at least signs or something saying that the course was closed for the tournament). No one else happened through there when the park is believed to have been open. Either that's just happy coincidence or there was some kind of safety measure taken that prevented an accident from happening much sooner than it did.

What we do know is that the park was closed at midnight, if not sooner (maybe at sundown since there were no lights on for folks to play tennis or disc golf or whatever else by). It isn't unreasonable to think that someone, be it parks department, police, power company, whomever, decided that the park being closed was enough to prevent anyone from happening on the downed wire, and it was left to be fixed in the daylight of the morning. And that person(s) may have had no way of knowing that there was any chance at all that someone would be out playing disc golf in the dark. Just because it is something that happens occasionally isn't a reason to assume that every single person involved with decision making would know about it and account for it.

Bottom line is that we don't know enough to know anything.

 

[The Hammer]

At the very least, they could have cut the power to that line until it could be properly repaired.

 

[aajpity]

That's sad.

 

[nyrblue2]

Can you tell if a downed wire is live?

You can't - you stay away from any downed power line because you don't know if it's live or not. And you absolutely never try to save someone in that situation. His friend was lucky he got away with his life.

I certainly don't mean to pile on and feel horribly that this happened to this guy, but at a certain point, people need to watch out for themselves - other people will not always be able to (nor should they have to) protect you from danger.

And I agree with KniceZ - power companies work on priority basis. If there were other outages affecting hundreds or thousands of paying customers, you best believe they won't care about a line feeding only a tennis court right away. And as for "why didn't they turn the power off?", please don't just assume it's that simple. I can almost guarantee that the only way to disconnect power to that portion of the line would have taken out power to other nearby "customers" - that could include any of other park facilities, houses, businesses, water pumping stations, etc. Little loads like tennis court lights generally don't have dedicated means of disconnect - they are tapped off of lines that feed many loads. The same way if the line comes down that feeds your house - the only way to "cut power to it" would be to take out your whole neighborhood (or cut the line while energized, which is possible in some cases, but not in others).

 

[tbird888]

Messages left on the KCFDC board indicate that the incident happened on Hole 1 of the course. If this was the case, this was a small line that provided power to lights at the park's tennis courts, ball fields and not much else...

If there's power run specifically to the park, there should be a main power switch somewhere to be able to cut power to the park. Even if it were at the junction with the main line, that's probably not even a thirty minute process to cut the power.

 

[discgolf4lif3]

guy just wanted to throw.. this is sad.. hope hid buddy pulls through

 

[Dr.feelgood]

I'll probably end up doing crazier things to get a disc.

 

[scarpfish]

If there's power run specifically to the park, there should be a main power switch somewhere to be able to cut power to the park. Even if it were at the junction with the main line, that's probably not even a thirty minute process to cut the power.

I don't think the issue was how long it takes to do the job though, it was how long it takes to attend to this specific line when the utility company may have been dealing with hundreds of other lines just like it each of which were just as dangerous for people to be around, (some perhaps more so).

I mean, if the utility company had attended to this line and someone elsewhere where there were perhaps more people present had run into a downed line and got electrocuted there, they are in the same hot water, but we're not having this discussion on a disc golf board.

 

[gvdg jake]

Many of you have no clue how the power company works during and after storms. My father worked for the power company for years and actually had a heart attack working long hours trying to get the power back up.

Power companies work on a priority basis. They try to get the most customers back up as fast as possible. The article says nothing about what type of power line involved. Was it a local line the park had strung up to feed a light or shed or a major power line the transited the park. The priority that downed wire would get would be completely different depending on the specific situation.

As for 12 hours being excessive, that's also typically public response. I've been without power to days after major storms. With a downed power line in our neighborhood. But so was about half the rest of the county. Power crew are only allowed by law, to work so many hours before they have to take a rest for their safety.

I'm not saying the situation shouldn't be investigated; but without more info such as the type of power line, how long were other residences in the area out of power, how many power crews were available and how long they had worked; we're all just doing what American's do best - blame someone else or the "big company". Why are we so quick to absolve the individual of any responsibility for their actions. And why can't we show more respect and sorrow for the victum and learn from this.

My lesson - don't go play DG at 3 am after a storm in a park that's closed.

^^^ THIS ^^^

I had this arguement a few days ago (before it was all deleted) and it was getting hot. If you have never worked in this field then you will never know how it works. I tried to say this exact stuff already. 1000s of customers in one area without power take priority over a down power line in a park. Im sure this was not the only downed line in the area. I saw the video of the news crew on site. It appears the line was down near a shed? and tennis courts.

When utility companies (power/cable/phone) get notified of possible storms coming into the area, they tell ALL EMPLOYEES to keep the phone near by. They call you even if your off and will have you do a ride out to check out the damage to the system. Its possible that someone never went into the park to look (I wouldnt have either), since I would be more worried about the customer.

 

[tbird888]

I don't think the issue was how long it takes to do the job though, it was how long it takes to attend to this specific line when the utility company may have been dealing with hundreds of other lines just like it each of which were just as dangerous for people to be around, (some perhaps more so).

I mean, if the utility company had attended to this line and someone elsewhere where there were perhaps more people present had run into a downed line and got electrocuted there, they are in the same hot water, but we're not having this discussion on a disc golf board.

As long as the breaker's a switch and not up on a pole, a law enforcement officer or parks employee could've handled it.

When utility companies (power/cable/phone) get notified of possible storms coming into the area, they tell ALL EMPLOYEES to keep the phone near by. They call you even if your off and will have you do a ride out to check out the damage to the system. Its possible that someone never went into the park to look (I wouldnt have either), since I would be more worried about the customer.

Sounds like you'd be looking for a new job when everything was sorted out too. I'm sure the victim would thank you for ignoring orders if he could.

For the record, I tried to move this discussion to the Landfill instead of having it return here...

 

[nyrblue2]

As long as the breaker's a switch and not up on a pole, a law enforcement officer or parks employee could've handled it.

I can say with certainty that there was no way for a police officer or parks employee to de-energize that line. From the news video, it looks like it was a 13 kV line (or something of that magnitude) that fell - those don't have readily accessible "switches" for Joe Blow to walk up and flip.

 

[disc qualified]

We sure got a lot of "detectives" amongst all the assembled "experts" populating this place

 

[barneco]

Those of us with no direct experience with how a power co deals with problems(myself at least) seem to be differentiating between FIXING a problem(i.e. restoring power) and DEACTIVATING a live line. I've always been under the impression that the the latter would be a quick operation and could, in some cases, be done from the CO(this is based on conversations I've had with AL Power operators). If that were the case, the logical order of priority would be:

1) Deactivate any live lines - eliminate immediate danger
2) Restore power to affected areas in whatever priority order.

But based on the comments from those in this thread with direct experience, the implication here(because it hasn't been explicitly stated) is that these 2 operations are either one and the same, or they are treated as such. The implication is that a downed line is treated as an outage, and prioritized among all other outages and worked accordingly.

Can the power co guys confirm this? A power co really can't/doesn't distinguish between a downed live line and a general outage?

 

[scarpfish]

As long as the breaker's a switch and not up on a pole, a law enforcement officer or parks employee could've handled it.

We don't know where the breaker is at. We don't know in fact if this is a spur line that only services the park (I merely made mention of what I could see from Google maps). We don't know how many hundreds of calls the utility company and/or police got between the time the line went down and the electrocution occurred. We also don't know what protocols that LEO's or parks employees in Kansas City, KS have for dealing with these issues.

But I see some of you from several states away with no credentials in any of those fields want to continue with your armchair Monday morning quarterback speculation about what should have been done. Whatever.
:wall:

 

[gvdg jake]

As long as the breaker's a switch and not up on a pole, a law enforcement officer or parks employee could've handled it.



Sounds like you'd be looking for a new job when everything was sorted out too. I'm sure the victim would thank you for ignoring orders if he could.

For the record, I tried to move this discussion to the Landfill instead of having it return here...

I wouldnt say that. Its common for people to miss areas of ride outs. Just because that line was down for X about of hours doesnt mean that the power company even knew about it.

I would have been fine with the convo being left here. I was shocked when I looked back and it was gone too! I felt everyone here was being really nice about it

 

[tbird888]

I wouldnt say that. Its common for people to miss areas of ride outs. Just because that line was down for X about of hours doesnt mean that the power company even knew about it.

It's been said they were informed between 3 and 4pm the day it happened. They had ~12 hours to take care of it.

I would have been fine with the convo being left here. I was shocked when I looked back and it was gone too! I felt everyone here was being really nice about it

You were taking the most flack and remained fairly civil considering everything. I was surprised this thread wasn't just outright deleted. Between the initial ignorant humor and the liability dispute, the editing had to be a pain.

 

[tbird888]

But I see some of you from several states away with no credentials in any of those fields want to continue with your armchair Monday morning quarterback speculation about what should have been done. Whatever.
:wall:

Don't you work for the Post Office?

 

[gvdg jake]

It's been said they were informed between 3 and 4pm the day it happened. They had ~12 hours to take care of it.


You were taking the most flack and remained fairly civil considering everything. I was surprised this thread wasn't just outright deleted. Between the initial ignorant humor and the liability dispute, the editing had to be a pain.

This is the internet, welcome to 2013. If you dont/didnt like what I had say, feel free to view another thread. I get very annoyed with people like you who have most likely never done this kinda work and think you know what should have been done. Until you have done it, dont argue with people who have!