Mandos Gone Wild

[Mr. Butlertron]

I have a mando scenario that happened during league play that I'd like to run by everyone:

A player throws passed the correct side (left) of a mando tree, hits a tree beyond the line, then the disc rolls backward across the same line and curls around to the mando tree and comes to rest on the incorrect side (right) of the same mando tree.

The disc has come to rest roughly even with the mando tree and line, just a foot to the right side, which is the incorrect side of the mando tree. Does the player still have to throw around the mando tree and pass the mando line with his next throw OR not?

 

[DavidSauls]

Yes, he has to make the mandatory again with a subsequent throw.

 

[JC17393]

Mandatories are not something that only have to be navigated once. They must be navigated correctly every time they fall between the lie and the target.

 

[kenjiac]

So in your scenario the mando has yet to be made because it's about where the disc comes to rest and how it got there. They use a string analogy in the Q&A. But I want to comment on the 1st 2 responses. If the disc passed on the correct side of the mando hit a tree then was deflected backwards across the wrong side of the mando the player would not have to pass the mando again as that player has already done so. See the Q&A pictures I've attached.
https://www.pdga.com/rules/official-rules-disc-golf/questions-and-answers#t5576n237841

 

[kenjiac]

https://www.pdga.com/faq/regulated-routes

EDIT: weird that link doesnt show the pictures.
Click this one then click regulated routes.
https://www.pdga.com/rules/official-rules-disc-golf/questions-and-answers#t5576n237841

 

[Discette]

Mandatories are not something that only have to be navigated once. They must be navigated correctly every time they fall between the lie and the target.

I would like to "nice" this more than once. :thmbup::thmbup::thmbup::thmbup::thmbup::thmbup::thmbup::thmbup::thmbup:


This is the common sense that we need on the rules committee. Thank you for volunteering.:clap:

You have included 36 images in your message. You are limited to using 10 images so please go back and correct the problem and then continue again. ....

 

[d11rok]

Mandatories are not something that only have to be navigated once. They must be navigated correctly every time they fall between the lie and the target.

While I agree with this logic, this statement is not reflected in the rules. Rather, in the above mentioned bit from the q&a, the statement is in fact proven false. Note that the routes from b to c are across the Mando line, which is in line from the lie to the basket.

I am not finding anywhere else in the rules that JC's statement is true. If it is, then the rules themselves are contradictory.

 

[Steve West]

Mandatories are not something that only have to be navigated once. They must be navigated correctly every time they fall between the lie and the target.

(Disclaimer: What I'm saying in this post is not an interpretation of current rules.)

I think it depends on how the mando is defined. Did the TD want to say "you can't go left of the tree" or did the TD want to say "you must go right of the tree".

If it was "can't go left", then you can't go left, no matter what has happened before.

If it was 'must go right", then once you've gone right, you did it and don't need to do it again.

 

[ThrowaEnvy]

Interesting.. Yeah I would have said if you went through you were good. Then again if there was something to avoid like a pedestrian path then the hazard is back in play again

 

[kenjiac]

I would like to "nice" this more than once. :thmbup::thmbup::thmbup::thmbup::thmbup::thmbup::thmbup::thmbup::thmbup:


This is the common sense that we need on the rules committee. Thank you for volunteering.:clap:

His statement is incorrect. You don't have to pass on the correct side of a mando every time you throw. See my above comment and pictures from the rules Q&A.

 

[JC17393]

His statement is incorrect. You don't have to pass on the correct side of a mando every time you throw. See my above comment and pictures from the rules Q&A.

Yes you do. The mandatory is defined by a line on the incorrect side that one cannot pass. Breaking that plane constitutes missing the mandatory. So if you're on the tee/lie side of the mandatory, even if you've navigated it once before, you still have to navigate again without crossing that mandatory line on the incorrect side.

If I'm understanding the OP correctly, his disc passed on the correct side of the mandatory, hit something and doubled back to the tee/lie side of the mando but did not cross the mandatory line. At that point, he has neither made nor missed the mando and must pass the mandatory obstacle on the correct side in order to proceed.

The applicable diagram for his situation is not any of the ones posted. It is this one, except that his disc performed like the far right disc but ended up where the one of the two on the left side came to rest...

He has to navigate that mandatory properly on his next throw.

 

[JC17393]

Just want to add that I find the "string" theory idiotic and it is one of the things that I'm going to try to change as a member of the rules committee. It contradicts the intention of the mandatory rule to allow for any throws to cross the mandatory line. The purpose of the mandatory it to prevent players from throwing through a certain area. It shouldn't matter that the player passed it correctly once already if the player is given a second opportunity to do so.

 

[_MTL_]

It shouldn't matter that the player passed it correctly once already if the player is given a second opportunity to do so.

:clap:

Exactly.

Imagine a park system saying "you can't throw over this shelter" and a mando is put up to prevent that and then someone curls around a mando and is now able, per rule to go over this shelter.

 

[chevis]

i drew it up for those visual learners

 

[chevis]

deleted for reading comprehension a>b>c

 

[Steve West]

i drew it up for those visual learners

Please add the tee and target.

 

[chevis]

Please add the tee and target.

i followed the format of those pdga diagrams, but mine is upside down (throw coming down from top)

 

[Steve West]

i followed the format of those pdga diagrams, but mine is upside down (throw coming down from top)

OK, thanks. In that case JC17393 is correct that you still need to go to the correct side of the mando. The rules do not conflict themselves in this particular situation.

Note also that because the bad side of the mando line is on your way, the line of play for marking and such goes toward the mando, not the target.

 

[cydisc]

Citing the rule (emphasis on the relevant part):
804.2B
A throw has missed a mandatory if, from the direction of the previous lie, it completely crosses a mandatory line and comes to rest without coming back across the line (a throw or sequence of throws that crosses the line in both directions is considered not to have crossed the line).

It makes no difference how the disc arrived at its location, if it lies on the away side of the mando line, the mando still needs to be made.

 

[ThrowaEnvy]

Thanks Chris but it's still not the right diagram.. It needs to hook back over the mando line..