"NAGS" Zone

[Widdershins]

The Super hero 235 is an approved Super Class disc with a lower profile for smaller hands. That's what I putt with in Super Class rounds.

No matter how complicated you make the greens, the key element in putting percentage is the ratio of the disc size to the target area. A tricky green barely impacts putting percentage but somewhat influences the approach to the green, especially if OB is involved.

Chuck, can you explain this concept? If I have a wide diameter putter but hit center chains won't it catch as good as a small diameter putter?

I fully (and painfully) understand that good putts spit out due to poor basket design but why does this happen to a greater extent with bigger putters?

 

[Widdershins]

Rather than go thru the hassle and expense to replace chain assemblies for smaller baskets, it would be much easier to simply require that pros use a large diameter disc at least Zephyr size for putting once you get inside 10m or maybe 15m. That change could occur as soon as the PDGA says the word. Only pros would have this larger putter requirement. It would be a legitimate way to differentiate between pro and am competition besides money/merch.

Damn. I have always figured the top players could beat me with a trash can lid. I don't really want to see that theory in action.

 

[pappabearlee]

I enjoy holes that require a well placed drive, and upshot for a par, atleast 6 holes like this on a course is ideal for me, I play with a lot of people that drive and putt well, but have a terrible short game, my experince is the people that complain about holes beyond the reach of their avg drive don't have a well rounded game, everyone has an opinion, that's mine.

 

[Cgkdisc]

Here's a rather detailed study how changing the diameter of the golf hole changes putting percentages. This study math is even more complicated than people feel our ratings system can be. However, if you just jump to the last page with results, you can see what happened: http://www.informs-sim.org/wsc08papers/356.pdf

Similar results would be expected going the opposite direction in disc golf where the ratio of disc diameter to basket diameter increased. If we try the mental exercise where you gradually continue to increase the diameter of the disc, it's apparent at some point that the diameter of the disc will become wider than the distance from the inside of the basket to the pole. One would not think that putting percentages would dramatically reduce at that point but they simply continued to decrease as the diameter increased from our current diameter to that point.

Of course, center pipe putts would in theory mostly be good even if the diameter of the putter increased to 30cm other than bouncebacks. But it's the putts offline that would increasingly miss.

 

[Star Shark]

How about (even though I'm not a big fan of it) encouraging course design where obstacles are left on the green so even if your 15' away or so, you could still have a tree or bush in the way of your putt. I know that is kinda frowned upon right now but it could work.

I'm not a huge fan of making people use a zephyr or whatever. I mean if that happens every manufacturer is gonna have to design a superclass disc for their sponsored pros to use and guys with tiny hands (me) can't really grip them that well when putting.

We have a green like this at Sylmar. I hate it. There's nothing worse than putting it within 25' and not having a shot at hte basket.

 

[JR]

One could do an experimental tourny or more maybe even a series to see, what would happen if one tied existing chains into a smaller diameter denser bunch using rope, cable ties, rubber bands etc. uniformity would be a nissue. Cost and hassle would be manageable because the course can be returned to normal state by the last group if necessary. Although i recommend leaving the chains bunched up for a weel or so to allow more people to play and some to have more rounds with the smaller target. So they could form a more informed opinion on the issue. It's good to listen to players of all skill levels. Waht may be good for the pros and the sport in the future may not be desirable for newbs now if they get frustrated and drop the sport now.

 

[jubuttib]

I remember seeing a video of some disc golf course that had a a metal cone in place of the chain assembly, with a pretty small gap between it and the basket. Those things would certainly make putting more difficult. A 9' putt in golf is certainly not a given, and it wouldn't be in disc golf either if those became mandatory. =)

 

[Cgkdisc]

Yep. My first round was on these cone baskets in 1989 and the 9-hole course is still there with those targets. It's like putting into a mail slot. While a new basket using this design would definitely make putting more difficult, it still fails from the standpoint of the huge investment for course owners to convert. You'll eventually come around to realize that if there's ever an initiative to make putting more difficult, the only feasible way to do it is requiring larger diameter discs for pros. It's so obvious that it could be done by next year if the directive went out.

 

[Frank Delicious]

Is there an initiative to make putting harder for pros?

Couldn't we make them flick all their putts or throw overhand? I'm not gonna lie I don't really know how we got on pro putting percentages but I don't think it's a major problem with the sport and I don't really think we need to make putting in disc golf as hard as putting in ball golf

 

[Fritz]

Is there an initiative to make putting harder for pros?

From the 99%

:lol: sorry couldn't resist.

 

[Frank Delicious]

What I'm saying is putting in ball golf sucks and I hope we don't turn disc golf putting into it or some weird gimmicky version of actual putting.

 

[Fritz]

What I'm saying is putting in ball golf sucks and I hope we don't turn disc golf putting into it or some weird gimmicky version of actual putting.

I agree. I was a scratch golfer for many years before I switched to disc golf. I think we keep reverting and trying to piggy back on ball golf to much. There are far better ways to make disc golf more challenging then messing with the disc that is needed to putt with. There are so many other factors involved in putting, I think it's fine how it is.

A Pro putting inside 30' is equal to a Pro Ball Golfer putting inside 3' You almost never see a professional ball golfer miss a 3' putt. Ball golf deals with the way the grass is cut on the green, we deal with the direction of the wind.

I think we need to come up with ways to create "penalty traps" and I like the idea of a tree 15' from the basket. Makes you place your shot more accurately.

On a couple of our courses we have grassy areas which we have instructed the parks department to not mow. Some of the grass in those areas is 36" tall Some of it is even at the height that it can mess with your back swing and putt. Definitely makes you place your shots to not land in the "rough"

I must not travel in the proper professional circles, because I've never heard pros complain how easy it was to putt inside the 30' circle.

 

[Cgkdisc]

It all gets back to the complaint about how far under par the top pros are shooting. Changing the fundamental putting ratio is one of the only ways to fundamentally fix this problem on EVERY course. And no one likes the other option either (par 2s). A third option would be to only allow wooded fairways for disc golf courses where good hole designs can be done where the SSA and actual scores match the proper par on the holes. Open holes cannot be designed well without all kinds of OB hazards (ala Winthrop) and not have top players torch them. If they can't torch them, either they will be too long or the par is not set properly.

 

[Triflusal]

It all gets back to the complaint about how far under par the top pros are shooting. Changing the fundamental putting ratio is one of the only ways to fundamentally fix this problem on EVERY course. And no one likes the other option either (par 2s). A third option would be to only allow wooded fairways for disc golf courses where good hole designs can be done where the SSA and actual scores match the proper par on the holes. Open holes cannot be designed well without all kinds of OB hazards (ala Winthrop) and not have top players torch them. If they can't torch them, either they will be too long or the par is not set properly.

you seem to really really want disc golf to be exactly like golf.

 

[kscustom]

This is pretty good thread. If you have played a super class tour I am not so sure about making pros use zyphers. I am not the best putter (getting better) but I hit 6-7 long putts with a zephyr. They can miss because they are so big but with practice I don't think it be a disadvantage. Also playiing am and puting in 1000 hours of practice the last year I would be discouraged if I had to learn the game all over just to make it pro. If you want to limit the top players I would say do it on the drive not on the putt. I have only played a little less than 2 years, and want to continue, in a sport growing as fast as dg why change it much when it is growing so fast? The formula works or it wouldn't be growing at the rate it is. But a true par system should be established. And hopefully any new courses going in are being well planned. I really like the articles in discgolfer keep em coming

 

[Pwingles]

This is pretty good thread. If you have played a super class tour I am not so sure about making pros use zyphers. I am not the best putter (getting better) but I hit 6-7 long putts with a zephyr. They can miss because they are so big but with practice I don't think it be a disadvantage. Also playiing am and puting in 1000 hours of practice the last year I would be discouraged if I had to learn the game all over just to make it pro. If you want to limit the top players I would say do it on the drive not on the putt. I have only played a little less than 2 years, and want to continue, in a sport growing as fast as dg why change it much when it is growing so fast? The formula works or it wouldn't be growing at the rate it is. But a true par system should be established. And hopefully any new courses going in are being well planned. I really like the articles in discgolfer keep em coming

Not to thread derail, but, 1000 hrs of putting only practice in a year is pretty difficult to do

 

[zj10021]

honestly. best DGR thread in a while. good stuff. even though I don't agree with being forced to use a certain disc it is a new idea

 

[BrotherDave]

What I'm saying is putting in ball golf sucks and I hope we don't turn disc golf putting into it or some weird gimmicky version of actual putting.

I'm with Frank here.

I would much rather have a rule where your shot before your putt has to be done with a super class disc or something rather than make people putt with certain discs.

Actually, the more I think about it, it would be kind of interesting if there was a rule where you had to throw a lid at least once every hole.

 

[Cgkdisc]

I'm neutral on making these changes. My ideas and discussion points are purely based on some options to solve the problems that some see. Ball golf apparently never had the problem because the cup and ball size seemed to be settled pretty long ago. However, they did use half pars at one time http://www.popeofslope.com/courserating/par4.html and must have decided they weren't needed once they established distance ranges where integer par values of 3, 4, 5 and 6 were just right.

 

[Working Stiff]

Really it's a solution to a perception problem. The perception for a lot of people is that -10 is too far under par. That perception comes from the comparison to ball golf. You either want to do something about it like large diameter putters or par 2's, or you can say "that's disc golf, get over it." Most of us are probably in the second group. Whether there is any real traction to the ideas probably depends on how many potential sponsors are in the first group.