Need opinions: OVERstable mid range.....

[Fritz]

If you like the demon, just stick with it and take the stamp off.

Not liking the stamp or name is a lame reason to not throw a disc you really like.

Problem there is the Gateway stamps are most times burned into the disc, so you can't remove them. Like that demon it's inset into the disc. No way to remove it.

If the disc name or stamp is offensive, I think that's a perfectly good reason to not like it.

 

[Anakha]

They borderline fairway driver status however.

I would say the same about the Demon as well. Well, not even borderline, the wing just screams driver to me. I've thrown several different Demons, and it never seemed reliable. Not to mention that thing feels like crap in my hand. I can understand the reason for the profile of the Demon for a headwind mid, but never found a reason to keep it in the bag.

Besides, the Xtreme is such a better disc. And even though I have one of those in the bag, it gets used very rarely.

Just my opinion though.

I'd pick Q-Sentinel, Drone, or Gator X. Z Wasp is what I prefer.

Well, until Discraft fixes the Torque mold. I'd love to have a very overstable, small diameter mid.(an actual midrange. not a driver designed to be used as a mid. :shock: )

Bringing the O.P. back-

I had a Demon, like the disc and its flight.

Why, if you liked it, and it fit the bill, would you let the name and stamp get in the way of you throwing it? Why not just take the stamp off, leave it naked, or dye it?

Edit- above posts were not there when I started typing. Still wouldn't let a name change what I throw though. Except for Quest's retarded names,(and stamps, i.e. Rock-it :roll: ) and speaking of Quest I'm surprised their hotstamps don't melt all the way through the flight plate. Those stamps are DEEP!

 

[ner021]

You can probably still find Gateway Scouts around, which are Demons in different plastic. They tend to be a little skippier in the Scout plastic, which is good for short approaches you want to skip around trees. For players that can throw forehand, but don't throw forehand often, I find the Demon/G5/Scout is a good disc since it's hard to turn over even with off axis torque.

 

[jamsisjams]

Having thrown Gator-Xs, Rocs, Spiders, Drones, Wasps, Demons and Sentinel MFs, both backhand and forehand, I'm convinced that there are two different thoughts on "overstable" mid-ranges. The Sentinel MF is the closest to the Demon, in regards to the way I classify overstable discs. Both of these discs seemed to turn over for me randomly but always had a significant amount of fade. Spiders seemed to hold a straighter line than a Roc , which would turn over, but the Roc seemingly had more fade. As for Drones, they're overstable Wasps. They hold an extremely stable line (unless you're a torque-monkey) and both have great fade.

All of that is from a forehanders perspective. Backhand--Demons, Sentinels, Wasps and Drones are all super-overstable for me. Spiders and Rocs are stable for me but they're all basically left-turning mids for me. If I'm backhanding a mid, it's probably my lightweight QMS. If I'm forehanding, it's probably a max-weight Z Wasp.

As far as the "school of thoughts" theory, it seems like some discs are fairly stable at high speeds but have insane amounts of fade. Other discs, meanwhile, are super-duper stable at high speeds and have slightly less, but still significant, fade than other "overstable" discs.

 

[Bradley Walker]

The best overstable mid is the Star Gator.

It is deadly accurate and wicked overstable thrown backhand. It is more reliable and has a better skip than Predator for me.

i throw this disc a lot.

 

[Timko]

The best overstable mid is the Star Gator.

It is deadly accurate and wicked overstable thrown backhand. It is more reliable and has a better skip than Predator for me.

i throw this disc a lot.

Everything you just said applies to the Demon for me. But my Spirit has way more skip.

 

[mesaranger]

First off i would like to thank all of you for your thoughts nd comments on which disc I should try and why. And i would like to respond to some.

First, The Demon is wicked overstable for me as a light forhand flick shot, the only time i used it was in heavly wooded areas when i needed to get around trees yet still needed it to fade back the other direction (hope that makes sense), or my "oh crap i'm in a bad place and need out" shot. The stamp would not come off due to the fact, as Fritz pointed out, it was burned into the plastic. Maybe, if I could find one that was blank I might think about it. I still am very much against the name and a devilish pic as the stamp. Thats just who I am.

Second, I heard that the star Gator was similar in flight. Sorry its not even close. However, I found that I like the disc alot for long putts or approach shots. I'm going to keep working with it on our small 9 hole grass course and see if it ends up in my bag as a perminent feature, but not as its origanal intent.

Thanks again to all for the response and I would like to hear more if you all so desire. This is good info for specific disc use (at least for me it is). I am going to try a couple more discs to see if I can find one that fits the bill and doesnt tick me off everytime I think about it...lol.

 

[ner021]

http://www.gatewayunderground.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWCATS&Category=6

From there you can get Scouts in the older Gateway plastic (the two at the bottom), or the H (Hytrel) plastic. The H is pretty skippy, and a little slick. The Sure Grip stuff at the bottom is a little different from the S-plastic Gateway currently ships, the surface is a little smoother than normal Gateway discs.

I like carrying them for approaches just because I feel like around trees I can aim for the center of the gap and have the disc work towards the basket, as opposed to throwing a straighter disc closer to the trees to get to the same spot.

 

[Parks]

I picked up a Champion Gator-X from discgolfvalues.com and haven't looked back. Wayyyyy more overstable than a DX Gator-X or the Star Gator (which is the beadless L-mold).

Very comfortable in the hand, and it is by far the most overstable disc in my bag. More so than my ESP Predator. Fly's straight at high speeds, even with OAT and a headwind, and then has a huge fade. The thing is a meat hook.

If my bag is full of The Usual Suspects, then this disc is Hyzer Soze.

 

[black udder]

I have a gator that is just stupid overstable - dunno if it's the weight or what, but I don't even throw it it's so overstable. The Drone is great, but not as stable as that gator, so it's not going to work for you.

Honestly, I'd give Dave a call at Gateway, or check with some of the folks that work there (some of them visit here) and see if you can't get a couple discs right after a run before the stamps.

he sent me 5 warlocks that have no stamps at all, so I don't see why it would be unreasonable. If the disc works for you, I'd stick with it. Understand the not liking it, but hold out until you can check in with somebody at Gateway first. Or maybe see if there's a bottom stamp version - at least you wouldn't have to look at it

Oh - and if you're using it for a lot of those "oh crap" forehand flicks - a Spirit or an illusion might work as well. I have a couple 150 illusions that are so stable they're unthrowable unless you have considerably over 350' of distance. Just like a meat hook - it's crazy. A buddy has a Spirit that is just crazy overstable as well - when it skips you can see the face of the disc... usually it skips about 5 feet high face to you (of course not in thick grass).

 

[garublador1]

I'm not a huge fan of overstable mids. I think they're hard to control distance with. In other words there's a very small distance range where they're good, but not that great outside of that. I find that overstable drivers work better. There are some farily slow, overstable drivers that I find to be very controlable if you want to go that way. The Whippet, Viper and Blaze all seem to be pretty good. If you can go a bit faster the Banshee or Firebird are both good, too. Going faster again, the Pred or Spirit are the discs of choice on here.

 

[Bradley Walker]

I picked up a Champion Gator-X from discgolfvalues.com and haven't looked back. Wayyyyy more overstable than a DX Gator-X or the Star Gator (which is the beadless L-mold).

Uh, no...

I bought SEVERAL beaded Gators (Champ) and those flew better and more predictably in a hard fade than the Star.

 

[dgdave]

My pias has a few champ gators that looks like the old pro line stuff. super pearly and swirled. how do these compare to the new champ gators?

All this gator talk makes me really want to try one and would like to know which one I should go for.

 

[Anakha]

Fixed.

 

[Anakha]

My pias has a few champ gators that looks like the old pro line stuff. super pearly and swirled.

Those are the ones I have thrown, are they slightly gummy? Those feel and fly fantastic. I would pick those up without a doubt.

 

[dgdave]

My pias has a few champ gators that looks like the old pro line stuff. super pearly and swirled.

Those are the ones I have thrown, are they slightly gummy? Those feel and fly fantastic.

yes they are. I'm really tempted to get a couple.

 

[Bradley Walker]

My pias has a few champ gators that looks like the old pro line stuff. super pearly and swirled.

Those are the ones I have thrown, are they slightly gummy? Those feel and fly fantastic.

yes they are. I'm really tempted to get a couple.

I had THREE of those. Champ gummy pearl with a bead...

None were any better than my Star.

 

[mesaranger]

Ok so I have had a few days with the Star Gator. I like the disc, it wont rplace my ROC's but it has found a place in my bag as a head wind putter...lol. Odd I know but damn it works well. The high speed flight path is nice and straight with a predictable fade and accurate fade at the end. So far I like it for those purposes....

 

[DanTaylor]

Ok so I have had a few days with the Star Gator. I like the disc, it wont rplace my ROC's but it has found a place in my bag as a head wind putter...lol. Odd I know but damn it works well. The high speed flight path is nice and straight with a predictable fade and accurate fade at the end. So far I like it for those purposes....

shouldnt the BB aviar be a head wind putter?

/confused

 

[readysetstab]

i saw the whippet mentioned, but not the whippet X. its technically a fairway driver, but it's so overstable that it doesn't really go anywhere. and if you pick up one of the sought after champions, they will last pretty much forever. i have had a champion whippet x in my bag for about 3 years and it's still beafy. not like it was when it was new, but still very overstable. i tried a demon for a while but just wasn't comfortable with it and switched back. they have some whippet X in star plastic now, but i don't know if they're quite as overstable. i haven't tried them since my champion never wears out

as far as flight goes, this is the closest thing to a demon that i've thrown.