Need your input please. Thanks!

[numbernine]

**PDGA Tournament players** - Would you rather have a cheaper buy in with a smaller players pack, or a more expensive tournament and a bigger payout? Why?

**Non-Tournament Players** - What keeps you from entering? Is it your skill level? Is it the cost? Part II - Would you enter a tournament if there was a free Novice division, with only a small payout for first place. Like, one disc or something?

I appreciate your input on this. Thanks!

 

[Jax11]

I know this is not directly answering your question, but I think that the course and the group running the tournament factors more into whether I choose to play it or not, rather than a big payout or player pack.

If I had to choose between player pack or a bigger payout I would prefer a balance of the two. I think its nice to have something to go home with no matter the outcome with the player pack, but its also nice to reward those who perform well. SO in simpler terms I would prefer a bigger payout, but not to the point where player packs are eliminated.

Lastly, I know a player who chooses not to play a lot of tournaments because he doesn't like the pace at which tournament play moves, he would rather play casually and get more golf in.

Hope this helps.

 

[numbernine]

Great response. Thanks!

And the pacing issue is not something new to me. Interesting though.

 

[The Hammer]

No players pack and bigger payout. Players packs are always filled with a bunch of promotional crap that can be had for free anyways, and the discs are generally crap as well.

 

[bradharris]

As an Am, I'm generally not concerned much with payout. I definitely prefer players pack over payout.

Kind of related to the original question though, I generally don't put much thought into the entry fee. If it's a tournament I want to play in, I'm going to pay the fee unless it's something absurdly high.

 

[Johnny_Crunch]

I don't play in tourneys because of the pace. I would not fare well sitting around and letting my arm get stiff.

 

[Halcón]

Very low, or no entry fee and payout to the top 3 players in each division only. No players pack. Local sponsors could pad the payout.

 

[silverbullet]

I say stop giving out crappy players packs unless they are worth it. our local club "WAFDA" holds C and B tiers and they players packs normally consist of a tournament stamped dry-fit and 1 champion/star disc. tournaments are normally about 40-60$ to enter , to me that makes playing worthwhile even if you end up doing bad everyone gets to take something home. Without those players packs i might not play because I'm not the best and most likely am not going to WIN anything lol.

 

[Jax11]

No players pack and bigger payout. Players packs are always filled with a bunch of promotional crap that can be had for free anyways, and the discs are generally crap as well.

I will agree with you when the players pack is full of promotional crap, I am not a fan.

In my local area, the preferred way to do player packs is by providing each entrant with a voucher for merchandise, so in essence its a pick your own player pack. If you don't spend your player pack before the tournament and end up winning prizes you can then combine your voucher with your prize winnings and get something of a little more value from the merch tent.

 

[CarRamRod]

From my personal stand-point i play Open in all tournaments so i rarely get any type of players pack, so I prefer bigger payout for the most part. People that sign up strictly for a cool players pack i feel like are missing the point.

I think in many ways disc golfers are spoiled with players packs just for signing up. When did anyone signing up for a intermural softball league or anything like that get a free bat and glove? You paid and played with the hope of winning a silly trophy and pride. I don't think players packs are a bad thing i just think we could use all the money spent on players packs and put it into payout.

I think if we did this you could pay out more places and i know personally i'd like to feel like i've earned what i am getting not just having a disc and shirt handed to me before i've even thrown a disc.

 

[Dan H.]

I would like to see better players packs and rewards for a larger percent of each division. When you please more people that play in your tournament, your tournament grows in popularity and you help grow the sport more. When you only pay out the top performers, you make the sport more elitist and that is discouraging to new players. When I play a tourney and I don't place, I feel better when I get at least a disc in the players pack and come kind of close to getting back what I paid into it. I'm sure lots of people disagree with this but it's the masses of little guys that are paying for your events, not the top 3 in each division. Make your event more fun for everyone and it will grow.

 

[AdmiralQuack]

I haven't played in a tournament yet for several reasons. The main reasons: skill level (I would only be comfortable playing at the Rec level, if there is one), fear of the unkown(rules, procedures, atmosphere etc), lack of equipment (need more discs etc.).
I hope to maybe try a tournament next year, if I can play in a rec division. Is there such a thing in PDGA sanctioned events? If not, is there a division that would be appropriate for 1st timers, with just enough skill and knowledge to be dangerous?

 

[silverbullet]

REC division is in PDGA tournaments , don't worry about how many discs. a guy was sent to USDGC from AR with only 3 discs and a towel lol. thats just how he plays (and he does damn good)

 

[DavidSauls]

I will agree with you when the players pack is full of promotional crap, I am not a fan.

In my local area, the preferred way to do player packs is by providing each entrant with a voucher for merchandise, so in essence its a pick your own player pack. If you don't spend your player pack before the tournament and end up winning prizes you can then combine your voucher with your prize winnings and get something of a little more value from the merch tent.

This is also the procedure around here, almost exclusively.

*

To the O.P., the question is really two questions:

(1) Low entry fee/low payout, vs. higher entry fee/higher payout.

(2) In either case, how much of the payout is in players packs, and how much in prizes.

 

[scarpfish]

Depends on the tournament.

That being said, I think tournament entries for Ams across the board have gotten as expensive as they need to, and that payouts for Ams, especially in the intermediate division and downwards should be stopped.

TD's should just pay out those divisions through player's pack entirely if he needs the markup. Not having to sift through merch prizes gets people on the road a lot sooner when the day is done, including himself.

 

[ringerguy]

From my personal stand-point i play Open in all tournaments so i rarely get any type of players pack, so I prefer bigger payout for the most part. People that sign up strictly for a cool players pack i feel like are missing the point.

I think in many ways disc golfers are spoiled with players packs just for signing up. When did anyone signing up for a intermural softball league or anything like that get a free bat and glove? You paid and played with the hope of winning a silly trophy and pride. I don't think players packs are a bad thing i just think we could use all the money spent on players packs and put it into payout.

I think if we did this you could pay out more places and i know personally i'd like to feel like i've earned what i am getting not just having a disc and shirt handed to me before i've even thrown a disc.

Your point about softball makes no sense. A free bat and glove would cost well over a hundred dollars. A disc costs at most ten. And furthermore, when I sign up for softball I get a free jersey and hat. Every sport/event I have ever participated in as an adult (softball, basketball, racquetball, mountain bike races, 5k running events, bowling) have given a free something to every participant. The winners of these amateur events may receive some pre-determined sponsored gift. However, I did not get anything for 9th place out of 30 in my last mtb race. That is not why I went to the event. I don't care about the player pack either. That is sort of an added bonus.

I am only speaking for the amateur side. I don't care about the professional side. If they want to pay out 75% of the participants and diminish the winner's purse, so be it. I think that the vast majority of income from the event should go directly into the tournament director's pocket.

To the op's point: I would love to play in 20 dollar tournaments with no payouts and small to no player packs. Or the option to purchase a player pack, not have it already added into the cost of the tournament.

 

[Brokensaint]

Speaking as an (barely) INT AM, here's my 2 cents.
Entry fees are a prohibitive cost for me when they cross the $30 mark. A local club tourney for $20, and they usually have a stamped disc? Sure, no problem. That's not to say the higher fee will be a deal breaker, but I will look at the player's pack to decide how deep I'm willing to go to pay to play a course I can play for free the next day. To drive to Kansas City, stay in hotel for 2 nights, eat and all the other expenses that come from staying out of town to then put up $60 (I'm making up this number) to play in a tournament with a large field of players, many of whom are no doubt far better than I, in which I will most likely not place? Not without a good-looking players pack.
I'll go with KC for this example. Here's my math:

The opportunity to play KC's awesome courses= The gas money/hotel fees/food. I have made this trip before. 1 overnight stay let me play 7 courses. At my leisure. My pace. This is worth it. I didn't have to put up entry fee money to do it. If I tack on another night's stay, that lets me play 3-4 more courses. At my leisure.
Add in the cost of entry, limit my playing field choices for my time spent here away from the family, add in the fact that I'm now playing with guys I don't know and subtract a player's pack from that equation= I'm not going to play it. I'll wait until the following weekend, plan a trip with my kids and my buddy and play those same tournament-ready courses on my own time.

Player's Packs are an important part of the draw. It puts new plastic in player's hands, so the manufacturers should support this well (maybe a buy-back program on the manufacturer's part to help support the tournament scene and the TD's who run them). If I choose to play in a tournament, I'm still playing for fun, and part of the fun is the disc on the wall and the t-shirt that I wear to the point of disintegration. Take that away and I'm only contributing to the pockets of 9 people. No fun at all.

As far as depth of payout, I think that the top 3 get paid in each division. Period. Pay them in cash, not merch, but only pay the top 3 finishers. If there are CTP's, putting competitions, long drives, etc. pay them in merch. And then sell merch to everyone else.

Just my thoughts.

 

[pspunch]

**PDGA Tournament players** - Would you rather have a cheaper buy in with a smaller players pack, or a more expensive tournament and a bigger payout? Why?

I prefer a big players pack. Custom stamped disc or shirt go a long ways with me (disc more than the shirt). I would probably not attend an "expensive" tournament if the players pack sucked in lieu of a bigger pay out.

GBO has been the best tournament i've gone to thus far. shirt/hat/2 discs/glass mini/bunch of misc stuffs... they do it up right! The Des Moines Challenge was a close 2nd (2nd only because i didn't care for the discs/shirt they gave out)

 

[bradharris]

That being said, I think tournament entries for Ams across the board have gotten as expensive as they need to

This brings up an interesting point: the need for entry fees. Keep in mind that paying an entry fee invests the players in the event. Make it too low and you're likely to see more no-shows and midday dropouts without any heads up from the players leaving.

payouts for Ams, especially in the intermediate division and downwards should be stopped.

Totally agree. Payouts encourage bagging. Eliminate payouts and the sandbagging problem will be greatly reduced.

Of course, I hate the divisional structure altogether, but I've ranted about that in plenty of other threads.

 

[DiscJunkie]

Just one person's POV,
I have withdrawn from tourneys that decided to forgoe the Player's Pack for payout.

I have one something from the majority of tourneys that I've been in.
However, I would hate to travel for 2 hours to a tourney and walk away with NOTHING.
Plus it gives me something to remember.

I also tend to favor tourneys that are known to have nicer Player's Packs.
Again, just one POV.