New Foot Fault Rule?

[themontage]

yup.

803.04

F. A stance violation must be clearly called within three seconds after the infraction to be
valid. The call may be made by any member of the group or an official. When the call is made by
a member of the group, it must subsequently be confirmed by another member of the group. A
player shall receive a warning for the first violation of a stance rule in the round.
Subsequent violations of a stance rule in the same round shall incur a one-throw penalty.

H. The player may not retrieve the originally thrown disc prior to the re-throw, except in the
case of a putt from within 10 meters. Where a disc is retrieved in violation of this rule, a
one throw penalty shall be imposed without a warning.

 

[biscoe]

warning the first time, penalty thereafter. reshoot.

 

[oddjob]

so has balance been defined? i can't see the vid at work.

 

[TalbotTrojan]

Sorry for not having read all 7 pages of this thread already but I am trying to figure out what in the world the jump putters in the world are going to do with what Feldberg is saying. Surly there has to be some response from someone who regularly jump putts, outside of the circle of course.

 

[scarpfish]

I can see a lot of higher division players getting in a snarl over this because a player doing this perhaps touched the toe or ball of his non-plant foot to the ground, but didn't set it down flat, or down flat long enough to their liking.

Conversely in the lower divisions, outright foot faults/falling putts will be ignored as usual as the better half of the players don't know the correct interpretation of the rule and don't care to protest about it even when they do.

 

[VictorB]

Sorry for not having read all 7 pages of this thread already but I am trying to figure out what in the world the jump putters in the world are going to do with what Feldberg is saying. Surly there has to be some response from someone who regularly jump putts, outside of the circle of course.

You should have read the whole thread.

Chuck provides a very detailed description of why this isn't changing the rule, but how it is enforced.

 

[tick]

I do not agree that it is necessary, as the rules are written, to put both feet on the ground behind the marker line, in order to demonstrate balance. In the video, when Dave is talking while standing on one foot, he is clearly demonstrating "full control of balance" as the rule requires.

803.04 C, sentence 2, states that: "A follow-through after a putt that causes the thrower to make any supporting point contact closer to the hole than the rear edge of the marker disc constitutes a falling putt and is considered a stance violation."

As I read it: If it is a deliberate step rather than a follow-through, and if the player has demonstrated full control of balance, then there is no rule violation.

What I understand, is that two feet on the ground behind the lie and especially some backward movement is a clear demonstration of full control of balance. In other circumstances, like Feldberg's one foot balance, ambiguity begins to creep in. However, I would never agree to calling a stance violation on Dave for stepping forward as demonstrated after that one foot balancing act.

In the rule book there is nothing at all about "both feet" touching the ground behind the lie, only about demonstrating "full control of balance". Like tallpaul said, It's back to what constitutes "demonstrate full control of balance", and for me a foot tap is just one possible (and falllible) marker of that balance.

 

[Cgkdisc]

This is an example of a rule being clarified between rules updates similar to when the definition of courtesy for playing out of order was tweaked in the 1999 Worlds to allow players to ask if they could putt out in advance of a player who was further out. This tweak was put in place until it was made clear in the 2002 rulebook. Similarly, this "both feet on the ground to prove balance" rule waiver was tested at the 2009 USDGC and now will be in place until established in print in the next rules update to be in place for 2011.

 

[Bangchains]

Foot Fault

Is this now considered illegal (@30sec. mark)? He is clearly jumping.

 

[themontage]

Chuck, are there other interpretations of the rules that are going to be enforced like this one? Meaning are there other rules that are poorly enforced that have better explanations this year?

 

[biscoe]

legal as long as he releases before he leaves his foot. rule has not changed.

 

[Cgkdisc]

Chuck, are there other interpretations of the rules that are going to be enforced like this one? Meaning are there other rules that are poorly enforced that have better explanations this year?

I haven't heard of any. But then again, Feldberg's video posted here was the first I heard they were planning to be more precise on these foot fault calls. I'm guessing this was discussed on the NT Committee and I'm not a member of that group. If anyone has issues with the rules that they don't think the Rules Committee will address, please contact them now because they are assembling all of the issues they are going to address in the rules update for 2011 right now.

 

[tallpaul]

Appears to me in the vid, that his plant foot; behind the mini; is off the ground before he releases the disc. Obviously close call; but I believe this is my point; there will be tons of these close call situations; and the resulting rules infraction call will come down to whether or not another player has reasons to call it or not. There are a number of scenarios that could cause this; some of which are unpleasant to speak of. Then, weather on not another in the group will back this call; also leads into some unpleasant areas of conversation.

 

[biscoe]

that is no different than it has ever been.

 

[mashnut]

Appears to me in the vid, that his plant foot; behind the mini; is off the ground before he releases the disc. Obviously close call; but I believe this is my point; there will be tons of these close call situations; and the resulting rules infraction call will come down to whether or not another player has reasons to call it or not. There are a number of scenarios that could cause this; some of which are unpleasant to speak of. Then, weather on not another in the group will back this call; also leads into some unpleasant areas of conversation.

That's a problem that goes way beyond foot faults, if you have a way to make it so people can and will call rules consistently and fairly without backlash from other players you'd solve a lot of rules problems.

 

[DSmith]

Like this?

Avatar size (80X80):
http://mattdabbs.files.wordpress.com/2010/02/feldbergouch.jpg

Large:
http://mattdabbs.files.wordpress.com/2010/02/feldbergouch2.jpg

I was thinking more of an animated gif but that ones pretty cool.


Chuck how tough is it to just change the rule to outside 100 ft as long as you are behind your mark before leaving the ground, the disc leaving your hand before your feet are off the ground is not an issue, I would think maybe a "you need to call putt as in calling what pocket your shooting for in pool". Inside 100 ft your disc must leave your hands before your feet leave the ground. And inside 10 meters you must have both feet square on the ground before advancing forward of your marker.

 

[biscoe]

how would that improve anything? just adding another level of complexity imo.

 

[Cgkdisc]

Chuck how tough is it to just change the rule to outside 100 ft as long as you are behind your mark before leaving the ground, the disc leaving your hand before your feet are off the ground is not an issue, I would think maybe a "you need to call putt as in calling what pocket your shooting for in pool".

I've proposed changing the rule to allowing players to jump where they simply had to release the putt before coming back down outside 10m to allow more athleticism in the sport. But it's been shot down primarily for safety reasons. On the other hand, I think there's thought about extending the 10m line to 15m in the next rules update so we'll have to see what the Rules Committee thinks.

 

[bthoma1]

So what if I let go of my putter weird and it is going to miss. But I know this and I step forward so somebody can call a foot fault and I get another shot??
jk I would never do that

 

[Cgkdisc]

A foot fault has to be called and seconded. One of the problems with the current rule is that a player can call their own foot fault and it has a good chance of getting seconded even if it was a questionable move on the player's part because they yanked their shot.