nine hole courses and pdga sanctioned tournaments

[GMcAtee]

I play solo rounds like this frequently (I like the added challenge of packing your bag and choosing shots), but man is it annoying when you are playing in a 3-some or 4-some.

I do too.

 

[GMcAtee]

Has occasionally been done in Scandinavia starting around 5 years ago for PDGA and other leagues so rounds after work can get done before dark. I think they try to limit groups to 3-somes so only six discs are in play.

I couldn't find anything in the rule book that says you can't. Forced me to reread and refresh myself with the rulebook today.

 

[BogeyNoMore]

I play solo rounds like this frequently (I like the added challenge of packing your bag and choosing shots), but man is it annoying when you are playing in a 3-some or 4-some.

I'm sure a bunch of us have done this for a solo rounds at least once or twice.

But I could see this being more trouble than it's worth for a card of 3 or 4, especially in a tournament setting.

Most niners don't have dense rough, but some of the better ones (probably more likely to be chosen for a tourney) do. Enough fun searching fng for 1-2 discs.

I suppose how good an idea this is depends on the course.

 

[Cgkdisc]

I'm sure a bunch of us have done this for a solo rounds at least once or twice.

But I could see this being more trouble than it's worth for a card of 3 or 4, especially in a tournament setting.

Most niners don't have dense rough, but some of the better ones (probably more likely to be chosen for a tourney) do. Enough fun searching fng for 1-2 discs.

I suppose how good an idea this is depends on the course.

Seems like I recall a league in Iceland doing this where there may be more concern about your disc warping from warm ground than getting lost in the tree or rough on each hole.

 

[uncle pennybags]

Seems like I recall a league in Iceland doing this where there may be more concern about your disc warping from warm ground than getting lost in the tree or rough on each hole.

Warping or melting?

 

[Cgkdisc]

Warping or melting?

Depends how long until you throw again.

 

[uncle pennybags]

Depends how long until you throw again.

I think you just found a new way to motivate slow players!

 

[DiscGolfCraig]

The interesting thing about an event like this is that players will probably need to setup their bag differently than for a typical round on the same course.

Can you play the same disc for each hole? For example, can you throw a disc (say, Katana) off the tee for your first hole, run down the fairway, mark it, retrieve it, then throw the same Katana for the second hole? What about putters if you make the first hole, can you use the same putter for the second hole?

 

[BogeyNoMore]

Can you play the same disc for each hole? For example, can you throw a disc (say, Katana) off the tee for your first hole, run down the fairway, mark it, retrieve it, then throw the same Katana for the second hole? What about putters if you make the first hole, can you use the same putter for the second hole?

I'd have no problem with someone marking and retrieving their putter, but if some wants to do that for tee shots... :wall:

If someone did that for all nine holes, I believe there's a decent chance a cardmate strangles them before they reach the 9th hole.

You know up front you're going to have to make the same tee shot twice. As Krupicka referenced earlier, set your bag up ahead of time.

 

[Rastnav]

I couldn't find anything in the rule book that says you can't. Forced me to reread and refresh myself with the rulebook today.

I can't imagine that in a standard 18 hole sanctioned round that it would be legal to go tee off on hole 2 before holing out on hole 1. It would be a misplay, or a practice throw, as you wouldn't be throwing from your established lie.

So there has to be some exceptions to the standard rules to allow this to happen.

 

[Steve West]

I can't imagine that in a standard 18 hole sanctioned round that it would be legal to go tee off on hole 2 before holing out on hole 1. It would be a misplay, or a practice throw, as you wouldn't be throwing from your established lie.

So there has to be some exceptions to the standard rules to allow this to happen.

The question is: If you are playing that format, isn't that your established lie? I think it is, but

800 Description of the Game
Last updated: Friday, December 1, 2017 - 10:34

[...]
After the player has thrown from the tee, each successive throw is made from where the previous throw came to rest. On completing a hole, the player proceeds to the teeing area of the next hole, until all holes have been played.

Does not allow for that format.

If the TD got an exception to 800, then I don't think the other rules would be violated.

 

[Rastnav]

The question is: If you are playing that format, isn't that your established lie? I think it is, but


Does not allow for that format.

If the TD got an exception to 800, then I don't think the other rules would be violated.

I don't think the exception would be to 800 alone, as every other rule which refers to the lie refers to it singularly. The rules assume at all time that one has a single lie.

Even the rules on playing order from the tee don't handle the idea of holing out two discs. What's the teeing order for hole 2a? When do you tee for hole 2b and in what order?

Accurate individual hole scoring is also an issue. If I throw two discs, same color, same stamp, on a hole, it's possible to have a situation where you don't know whether I, for example, went OB on hole 1a or 1b. It doesn't matter to the tournament score as a whole, but it does affect whether I score, say, a birdie and a bogey, or a par and a par. Depending on the rules for tee order, that then effects the course of play.

I don't think any of this should prevent this kind of format, as the basic idea is straightforward. It's just that I don't see how one could accomplish it under the existing rules absent some broad exception that basically was "the TD and the cards must use common sense to resolve any ambiguities encountered".

 

[Cgkdisc]

I can't imagine that in a standard 18 hole sanctioned round that it would be legal to go tee off on hole 2 before holing out on hole 1. It would be a misplay, or a practice throw, as you wouldn't be throwing from your established lie.

So there has to be some exceptions to the standard rules to allow this to happen.

The "Playing two holes in parallel" format being discussed is initially governed by its competition rules that describe the format. Then the format TD chooses to use the PDGA rulebook to oversee each throwing sequence. The PDGA then determines whether the format produces scores suitable for sanctioned singles play for points and ratings. Looking at the basic rulebook to determine legality of a format is irrelevant in the same way as looking to the rulebook to determine whether various mulligan formats are legal.

 

[Steve West]

I don't think the exception would be to 800 alone, as every other rule which refers to the lie refers to it singularly. The rules assume at all time that one has a single lie.

Even the rules on playing order from the tee don't handle the idea of holing out two discs. What's the teeing order for hole 2a? When do you tee for hole 2b and in what order?

Accurate individual hole scoring is also an issue. If I throw two discs, same color, same stamp, on a hole, it's possible to have a situation where you don't know whether I, for example, went OB on hole 1a or 1b. It doesn't matter to the tournament score as a whole, but it does affect whether I score, say, a birdie and a bogey, or a par and a par. Depending on the rules for tee order, that then effects the course of play.

I don't think any of this should prevent this kind of format, as the basic idea is straightforward. It's just that I don't see how one could accomplish it under the existing rules absent some broad exception that basically was "the TD and the cards must use common sense to resolve any ambiguities encountered".

Yeah, I think you are right. Just like match play or team play needed to look at every rule to see whether it still worked.

One idea that solves the issues you raise is to simply score hole 1 as the sum of 1a and 1b scores. Playing a hole would mean getting both discs from tee to basket. It wouldn't matter whether each throw was part of the 1a sequence or the 1b.

For now, let the TDs define how everything works, including allowing "common sense". If it ever becomes a standard format, then the PDGA can codify all the things that worked best. This would include codifying the common sense resolutions so everyone will handle almost every situation in the same way.

 

[ToddL]

PDGA will officially sanction all sorts of wacky things. Doubles, abnormal rules, mulligans, etc. Wacky stuff typically gets X sanctioned and their ratings don't count. I would argue that this "simultaneous 9s" format should also be an unrateable X. Your second throw on any shot is using an artificial restriction on your freedom on choice. It's not inherently different than playing a "putters-only" round or a "three disc" challenge. You threw your overstable fairway on your first tee shot and now are prohibited from throwing it on your second tee shot? Are we running a contest of how many discs a player owns?

 

[Rastnav]

The "Playing two holes in parallel" format being discussed is initially governed by its competition rules that describe the format. Then the format TD chooses to use the PDGA rulebook to oversee each throwing sequence. The PDGA then determines whether the format produces scores suitable for sanctioned singles play for points and ratings. Looking at the basic rulebook to determine legality of a format is irrelevant in the same way as looking to the rulebook to determine whether various mulligan formats are legal.

I made that post in response to what I understood was someone saying that the basic rules didnt preclude this format, and the other in response to Steve saying it would just be precluded by rule 800.

I completely agree that a rule set that specifically addresses this wouldn't be an issue.

 

[Steve West]

Pardon me while I think a little more about keeping score as the total throws it takes to complete two sequences on the throw. Let's call these doubled holes.

As I said, it takes care of tracking which throw belongs to which sequence and the throwing order on the next tee.

I would think the Ratings would work the same for 9 doubled holes as 18 single holes. The minimum number of doubled holes to get a rating could be 7.

As for doubled hole par, it could be just twice the regular par. However, there is the potential to get more refined. An easy par 3, for example, could become a doubled hole par 5. While a difficult par 3 could become a doubled hole par 7.

I ran my par formula against the expected distribution of total throws on a doubled hole, (using half the total score as the root). I'm sure the other ways of setting par could also be adapted.