Noobie Question Thread (Dumb Questions answered here)

[KnightsDG]

I was just wondering what the best way to find out about up coming tournumnets is? Sorry if this has been asked.

 

[NuNinja]

I was just wondering what the best way to find out about up coming tournumnets is? Sorry if this has been asked.

Here maybe?
http://www.discgolfscene.com/tournaments

 

[DiscTosser]

What's a hyzer flip? How do you do one?
Why do people have discs for tailwinds, headwinds, etc?

I want to get better at disc, not just play rec. but some of these terms just confuse me and I don't know how to do them.

 

[NuNinja]

What's a hyzer flip? How do you do one?
Why do people have discs for tailwinds, headwinds, etc?

I want to get better at disc, not just play rec. but some of these terms just confuse me and I don't know how to do them.

Hyzer flip - Disc golf shot using a stable or an understable disc released with hyzer angle that flips up to flat and depending on the disc can hold the straight line or turn right or fade left at the end of the flight. Useful for narrow fairways and tight shots.

Understable discs don't do good in a headwind...

 

[stan_84]

What's a hyzer flip? How do you do one?
Why do people have discs for tailwinds, headwinds, etc?

I want to get better at disc, not just play rec. but some of these terms just confuse me and I don't know how to do them.

1. a hyzer flip is when you throw an understable disc on a hyzer and it pops up from said hyzer to fly (usually straight depending on the stableness of disc)..... good for tunnel shots
2.grab an under stable disc and throw on a hyzer
3.understable with a tailwind, overstable in a headwind, crosswinds you usually dont want to show the wind the underside of the disc
Good place for checking where your discs lie on their stableness...
http://www.marshallstreetdiscgolf.com/media/flightguide.html wind will make your disc seem to travel faster or slower when in the wind thus the uses of different kinds of stableness

 

[WOTI]

I was just wondering what the best way to find out about up coming tournumnets is? Sorry if this has been asked.

http://www.pdga.com/tour_schedule

This has any pdga sanctioned tournaments. It's probably best to just ask around and try to find the TD for non sanction events.

 

[rd.bittle]

1. a hyzer flip is when you throw an understable disc on a hyzer and it pops up from said hyzer to fly (usually straight depending on the stableness of disc)..... good for tunnel shots
2.grab an under stable disc and throw on a hyzer
3.understable with a tailwind, overstable in a headwind, crosswinds you usually dont want to show the wind the underside of the disc
Good place for checking where your discs lie on their stableness...
http://www.marshallstreetdiscgolf.com/media/flightguide.html wind will make your disc seem to travel faster or slower when in the wind thus the uses of different kinds of stableness

Well said.
:hfive:

 

[slugwater]

When will a sanctioned tournament I played in show up on my PDGA player information page? Does it happen right after the TD sends in the report? Or does it show up when PDGA does a ratings update? Just curious. Thanks!

 

[plastic cannon]

Depends on how fast the TD is at getting the stats to the PDGA. I recently played in a event where my scores and round ratings were up the next day.

 

[joshmo65]

Some TDs get the rounds in the system between the 1st and 2nd rounds... some get them in 2 weeks later

 

[BgWvDave]

When will a sanctioned tournament I played in show up on my PDGA player information page? Does it happen right after the TD sends in the report? Or does it show up when PDGA does a ratings update? Just curious. Thanks!

They will go in on the next rating update after the TD report is turned in and the tournament fees are paid
to the PDGA.

 

[Chained Evil]

Question about stability:
What determines if a disc is understable or not? Is it that the turn number is greater than the fade number?
The reason that I ask is this, I bought a Dynamic Discs Escape which is 9 6 -0.5 2 according to the disc. In my theory of math this would come out to a 1.5 overstable disc. I bought it looking for a fairway driver that would do well into a moderate headwind. When I throw it when there is no wind it fades as advertised, into a head wind it is understable. So would you classify this disc as understable or overstable.
The way I figure it the turn number needs to be higher than the fade to be understable, like say a sidewinder which is 9 5 -3 1. To me this would make this an understable disc say a -2. Am I missing something here? Any insight would be great.

 

[DG addict24]

Question about stability:
What determines if a disc is understable or not? Is it that the turn number is greater than the fade number?
The reason that I ask is this, I bought a Dynamic Discs Escape which is 9 6 -0.5 2 according to the disc. In my theory of math this would come out to a 1.5 overstable disc. I bought it looking for a fairway driver that would do well into a moderate headwind. When I throw it when there is no wind it fades as advertised, into a head wind it is understable. So would you classify this disc as understable or overstable.
The way I figure it the turn number needs to be higher than the fade to be understable, like say a sidewinder which is 9 5 -3 1. To me this would make this an understable disc say a -2. Am I missing something here? Any insight would be great.

I would say the Escape is an over stable disc. If a pro throws a destroyer into a headwind as hard as they can it's going to turn. Does that mean the destroyer is an understable disc? No, just because it's called overstable doesn't mean it can't turn.

 

[Micronaut]

Question about stability:
What determines if a disc is understable or not? Is it that the turn number is greater than the fade number?
The reason that I ask is this, I bought a Dynamic Discs Escape which is 9 6 -0.5 2 according to the disc. In my theory of math this would come out to a 1.5 overstable disc. I bought it looking for a fairway driver that would do well into a moderate headwind. When I throw it when there is no wind it fades as advertised, into a head wind it is understable. So would you classify this disc as understable or overstable.
The way I figure it the turn number needs to be higher than the fade to be understable, like say a sidewinder which is 9 5 -3 1. To me this would make this an understable disc say a -2. Am I missing something here? Any insight would be great.

The escape is a moderately overstable disc, as you had thought. But moderately overstable isn't the best for fighting wind. It's better for a hyzer flip. That's what I get out of my Teebird, and it's 42% overstable, according to inFlight Guide, which puts your Escape at 25% overstable. InFlight Guide might be more useful for you than the numbers in terms of determining flight path. However, various factors will effect variations in the flight path. How hard, and how straight you throw it will be chief among these. How fast a disc spins determines how much it will turn or fade. The faster a disc spins (as at the beginning of its flight), the more it will turn. The slower it spins (as toward the end of the flight) the more it will fade. This is a result of relative wind in relation to the "wings" on the left and right of the disc. For a RHBH thrower the spin of the disc will result in less relative wind on the right wing (because it is spinning away from the wind, resulting in less relative wind), producing less lift, causing it to roll to the right (turn). At the same time there is more lift on the left wing (because it's spinning into the wind, producing more relative wind) adding to the turn. In other words, the lift differential makes the left wing come up, the right wing drop, and results in a turn to the right. As the disc slows down, the spin reduces, there is less relative wind on the left wing, and more relative wind on the right wing; resulting in a role to the left (fade). Headwind will intensify this whole process causing more relative wind on the left wing and less on the right; which results in more turn. Therefore you need a more overstable disc to fight headwind. And of course, the harder you throw it, the more the relative wind acts on the disc, because you are creating stronger relative headwind by throwing the disc harder, faster, with more spin. I hope I've expressed that in an understandable way.

 

[sisyphus]

^^^Another really well done answer! :thmbup:

I'm glad i check this thread out periodically! Thanks!

 

[Curtis_Valk]

^^^Another really well done answer! :thmbup:

I'm glad i check this thread out periodically! Thanks!

Me too! This is what I too have grown to understand by putting the various DGCR posts, videos and pieces of the puzzle together in the few months I've been playing. Micronaut put it all into one concise post! Thank you MN!

Curtis

 

[Micronaut]

^^^Another really well done answer! :thmbup:

I'm glad i check this thread out periodically! Thanks!

Me too! This is what I too have grown to understand by putting the various DGCR posts, videos and pieces of the puzzle together in the few months I've been playing. Micronaut put it all into one concise post! Thank you MN!

Curtis

Thanks. This is definitely a good thread. I always learn stuff here. Glad to contribute when I can.

 

[mashnut]

One minor thing I'd change in there is that more spin does not cause more turn, whether or not it's into a headwind. The more spin you put on a disc, the more resistant it will be to both fade and turn, the spin acts to keep the disc from changing angles similarly to a gyroscope.

 

[Micronaut]

One minor thing I'd change in there is that more spin does not cause more turn, whether or not it's into a headwind. The more spin you put on a disc, the more resistant it will be to both fade and turn, the spin acts to keep the disc from changing angles similarly to a gyroscope.

I'd have to disagree with that. The gyroscopic effect of a spinning disc helps maintain angular momentum. MVP makes a big deal about this in promoting their discs, and how they have an increased moment of inertia as compared with other discs on the market; which promotes spin and helps them maintain their angular momentum better. - A great idea, by the way. - However, You may be confusing angular momentum with the angle of the disc in flight (i.e. hyzer or anhyzer). But angular momentum actually refers the rotation of the disc around its axis, not the angle at which it is flying. In a gyroscope the maintenance of the spinning rotor's angular momentum does help it maintain its orientation, even as the gimbal changes its own around it. So it does help it to resist changes in its spacial orientation. But remember that that rotor is flat, and does not have wings interacting with wind. When you bring that into the equation, it changes things. You have to then consider how relative wind will change lift differential from left to right and hence the angle of flight. So it's not the spin itself that causes turn, but the interaction of the spinning wings relative to the relative wind. Therefore, for the reasons I described previously, more spin will cause more turn, and less spin will result in more fade.

 

[mashnut]

I don't have enough of a physics background to fully understand disc flight, but I disagree on your point above. There's a reason a pro like Barry Schultz can throw a 400' hyzer with a leopard and it turns and burns for most of us when we try to throw it that hard. He has the ability to throw with a lot more spin than most of us, and so is able to get the disc to hold the line he puts it on. Here are a couple of posts I was able to find quickly about the subject:

Its like this:

Snap = Spin. Spin prevents the disc from deviating from it trajectory (flipping). This seems counter intuitive, but the physics back it up. Google Bike tire gyroscope. Perfect segue.

A disc is a gyroscope (assuming you spin it fast enough). By snapping a disc you create what is called "gyroscopic neutrality." Best way to understand this is that the turkey will defy gravity. Hence the turkey will fly for longer. this is really what allows advanced players to throw mids and putter farther than beginners. Similarly, this is why certain discs are better for beginners. They are more easily made gyroscopically neutral. (Physics nerd bug off for the slightly imprecise terminology).

This is not to say that snap won't make a disc TURN, but that involves altering the poitn of precession. Needless to say, this isn't the reason discs FLIP, this is the slow drift that certain discs have in late flight.

So, the question you are burning to ask... "Well what the heel does armspeed have to do with it?"

Armspeed is where the aerodynamic forces of a discs design come into play. The gyro keeps the disc from deviating, but the aerodynamics cause something different...they cause LIFT. Lift is the reason that discs don't god straight to the ground. Certain discs cause more lift than others... Armspeed also creates velocity, which is a crucial part of the distance formula. But, armspeed can be your enemy...

So, snap makes a disc hold a line, and armspeed makes the fly like a wing...what makes it turn and burn?

It is lift...damn...

Lift causes flip, so what causes excessive lift. Well one thing is a disc designed to lift. Which is analogously a disc designed to flip. So a "flippy" disc is really just a disc that wants to lift. But other things cause lift too.... The biggest one is wobble. Some people call it OAT, others cringes at that term. They identify the same thing. A wobbling disc opens the bottom of the flight plate to the air rushing past it. This causes the leading edge to raise up and lift. The lifting causes flipping. This is why a clean release is SO important. To review a point from above: Snap is spin, spin makes the gyro work, when the gyro works (1) the turkey flies (2) the disc stays on line (it doesn't lift/flip). This is why a pro can take you beat to **** DX Blizzard disc and throw it on a pure hyzer. I like to demonstrate with a 161 DX Stingray. Throw it about 350 on hyzer. Then hand it off to a new player and get them to try and not flip it over.

Still with me? Sure hope so...

So this is staring to paint the picture of how to throw far. You must throw (1) clean and (2) without wobble and (3)on line (nose angle, etc) (4) and with some velocity. In that order. this is the algorithm that makes the truth in the truism; smooth is far. Think about clean snap like throwing a spiral in football. You won't ever throw that piece of **** 15 yards if you don't spin it. Discs are the same way.

DGCR - fill in the gaps...

(For credibility sake, I threw a 179 Marshall Street Roc 505' at Nationals two weeks ago. Real distance, not internet distance.)

Here's the physics approach:

An airplane wing generates lift because, for certain values of the angle of attack (the angle of the wing relative to the passing air), a pressure differential is created, with lower pressure above the wing.

If we view the disc in a Langrangian reference frame, a similar differential occurs--but mostly between the front and back of the disc. When you throw, the two major components of acceleration you impart on the disc are "armspeed" or forward acceleration and "snap" or rotational acceleration.

To digress briefly from this, each disc has a "design speed" at which it follows the flight paths you see on Inbounds or one of the company charts. An Aviar has a "design speed" of "2" and a Wraith "11". Those numbers are just relative. In order to achieve that design speed, you have to be able to generate sufficient forward acceleration. You may notice that it's easier to do this with a runup (which changes your personal reference frame to have a velocity of a couple mph). This is also why it's easier to get lighter discs up to speed, if you want to use the kinetic energy equation to model it (KE = 1/2*m*v^2).

However, forward velocity alone does not generate enough lift. As alluded to by another poster, the gyroscopic effect is responsible for the flight we all want. Again referring to a Lagrangian reference frame, as the disc moves through the air and rotates, the front of the disc "sees" air moving faster than the back (imagine a hurricane--as it tends to move northward, the NE corner tends to be the strongest for much the same reason). Like an airfoil, this difference in apparent velocity on the disc results in a pressure differential, seen more easily as lift. Hence, it's easier to get a lot of distance and carry with more snap on the disc.

The "secret" about these two characteristics is that they don't have to go together, and ideally shouldn't. If you try to throw an Aviar with the same armspeed as a Boss, it's likely that it would turn over on you in a hurry. The reason for this is because at velocities above the design speed of any disc, it will tend to "turn over" on you, and likewise at velocities below the design speed it will "fade". This is made more apparent by a pure headwind or tailwind. A headwind makes the "apparent velocity" of the passing air much greater from the disc's perspective, and a tailwind makes the "apparent velocity" much lower. Doubtless that's something you've observed... and that's why.

The simple answer for most throwing practices is that you can put as much snap on any disc as you want, and it will carry. Armspeed has to be managed more carefully, otherwise the disc will be moving faster than it's design speed and flip (you can counter this somewhat by throwing an artificial "hyzer flip" with a putter by releasing it hyzer).

However, don't confuse this for "go throw everything hard." If you've hung around the site for a few days, you've probably seen the abbreviation OAT, or off-axis torque. This is a difficult concept to observe in real time, but the idea is that you impart a third kind of acceleration as you throw--but not in the plane of the disc's movement. This causes "wobble" out of the hand, and tends to make the disc more understable. The best way to reduce your OAT is to learn to drive with a putter, throwing it flat, flat, flat. Then graduate to a stable midrange, then a stable fairway. Basically if you can throw perfectly flat drives with those, throwing something a bit faster shouldn't change the snap upon release, only the armspeed.

Good luck, any questions?