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OverthrowJosh here. AMA

Jumping in to thank OT for adding production to disc golf technique videos. It took a long time for 'production' to help Metallica. They got cult popular from kids recording their live concerts on terrible cassette tapes, many copies made, copied again and again. That felt raw. That felt genuine. I first heard them in a crappy Camaro on a crappy dubbed recording… Then they did an album with more production and like, orchestra crap. Songs were on the radio?!? Someone who wasn't familiar with the old-school raw-ness thought it was badass. OG fans thought it was just ass.

So anyway, the OG disc golfers are suspicious of produced videos and fresh faces. They're not raw. They don't feel like a VHS copy of a 1990s tournament. Us guys who came in later think your orchestra production is badass. The other guys will come around if you're genuine. You seem so.

I do have one question: did you play disc golf before you realized it was a budding industry, or did you realize the sport had potential before you started playing?
 
I've seen some of your vids. How do you manage the need to provide new content with the need to be consistent in your teaching?

Obviously, new technology and new data are going to influence; but how long do you leave an idea in the oven before you film? Is there a core of ideas that exist inside a basic backhand swing that are not subject to the "maybe this will work for you" caveat?
 
I do have one question: did you play disc golf before you realized it was a budding industry, or did you realize the sport had potential before you started playing?
I started playing around 2012 and then played collegiately.

A big hobby of mine is business though so it was probably inevitable that disc golf would move towards business endeavors.
 
I've seen some of your vids. How do you manage the need to provide new content with the need to be consistent in your teaching?

Obviously, new technology and new data are going to influence; but how long do you leave an idea in the oven before you film? Is there a core of ideas that exist inside a basic backhand swing that are not subject to the "maybe this will work for you" caveat?
There are so many concepts that I don't feel a need to get a specific video out as fast as possible. I've got a whole list of videos that need to hit the channel and not enough time to film them.

Generally, by the time a concept finds its way into a YouTube video it's already been fleshed out and tested in a fair amount of private lessons. So, with the rare exception, I'm pretty confident that what I'm saying in the video works.

Take the "arm the disc" video for example. That's a concept and video that came about through hours of conversation with Chris, even more time experimenting with it myself, and then even more time working with students struggling to not collapse their pocket to find the terminology that helped.

There are problems that arise from this though:
1. I have to characterize what works for SOME students and construct a concept in a way that is coherent for a YouTube audience. So I'm talking to people who may or may not even have the problem and assuming that this is the way I need to explain the concept to them for best understanding. This can very easily be square peg, round hole situation and I'm assuming it will be for some of the audience.
2. Consistency in teaching. One video I'm talking to square pegs and in the video following I'm talking to round ones. I'm going to emphasize corners, rigidity, and positional form with the squares and I'm going to talk about rolling, smoothness, and swing with the round peg. As a coach I know that the process of getting the peg in the hole is very much similar regardless of the shape; grip it on top, target acquisition, correct orientation, put it in the bucket. The art of coaching is in figuring out what shape the peg you're working with actually is so you can iron out the details and communicate in a way that they understand. That's even tougher to do on YouTube where you can't see or feel the peg.

All that to say, the overall process might not be that different but if you're a round peg watching me talk to squares you're going to think I've lost my mind because the instruction that works for them is seemingly opposite of what worked for you.

Most things are on a continuum in disc golf.

With that being said I've spent a lot of time feeling out the ends of the spectrum very publicly and have actually changed my stance on things here and there.

Is this a problem? Should you be teaching if your views aren't already solidified?
These are questions I've asked myself a lot and I think others have as well.

"If you wait until you're ready you'll never start."

Coaching as a skill is not different from other skills in how it is developed. If you read all the books and understand all the biomechanics, but don't actually coach someone you will be physiological expert and crap coach. The way to get better at coaching is by coaching.

The skill cluster that makes a good coach seems to contain two parts: technical knowledge and communication. I started with more of the later and have been increasing the earlier throughout my journey.

I think people tend to poo poo that progression over the inverse, but the reality is that people will become better coaches more quickly that way. It's like working in restaurants for 4 years and then going to culinary school. When you have experience to filter incoming knowledge through you can sift through that information much more efficiently and make knowledge gains faster than your peers.

The mistake that people who went to school first would make would tend towards over explaining concepts to students and vomiting irrelevant (and hurtful) details that lend to analysis paralysis.

That was a long answer for your short question but I wanted to flesh out what I felt somewhere on the internet because I think the current disc golf climate could use a little more practical coaching and a little less academia in some places.

I know my weakness is on the knowledge side so I try to make friends with the data guys. I want my coaching to be backed by the data but communicated practically.
 
The problem then becomes, why do I have two forms, and what's going on with my 'regular/control' form that prevents good weight transfer, hip rotation, timing, follow through, etc? or conversely, why do I feel like I have less control with my 'power' form?
That's not a problem though, right? So long as you know what to use when. Not bad to have a hammer and drill. It's only an issue if you think you should be drilling the nail.
 
There are so many concepts that I don't feel a need to get a specific video out as fast as possible. I've got a whole list of videos that need to hit the channel and not enough time to film them.

Generally, by the time a concept finds its way into a YouTube video it's already been fleshed out and tested in a fair amount of private lessons. So, with the rare exception, I'm pretty confident that what I'm saying in the video works.

Take the "arm the disc" video for example. That's a concept and video that came about through hours of conversation with Chris, even more time experimenting with it myself, and then even more time working with students struggling to not collapse their pocket to find the terminology that helped.

There are problems that arise from this though:
1. I have to characterize what works for SOME students and construct a concept in a way that is coherent for a YouTube audience. So I'm talking to people who may or may not even have the problem and assuming that this is the way I need to explain the concept to them for best understanding. This can very easily be square peg, round hole situation and I'm assuming it will be for some of the audience.
2. Consistency in teaching. One video I'm talking to square pegs and in the video following I'm talking to round ones. I'm going to emphasize corners, rigidity, and positional form with the squares and I'm going to talk about rolling, smoothness, and swing with the round peg. As a coach I know that the process of getting the peg in the hole is very much similar regardless of the shape; grip it on top, target acquisition, correct orientation, put it in the bucket. The art of coaching is in figuring out what shape the peg you're working with actually is so you can iron out the details and communicate in a way that they understand. That's even tougher to do on YouTube where you can't see or feel the peg.

All that to say, the overall process might not be that different but if you're a round peg watching me talk to squares you're going to think I've lost my mind because the instruction that works for them is seemingly opposite of what worked for you.

Most things are on a continuum in disc golf.

With that being said I've spent a lot of time feeling out the ends of the spectrum very publicly and have actually changed my stance on things here and there.

Is this a problem? Should you be teaching if your views aren't already solidified?
These are questions I've asked myself a lot and I think others have as well.

"If you wait until you're ready you'll never start."

Coaching as a skill is not different from other skills in how it is developed. If you read all the books and understand all the biomechanics, but don't actually coach someone you will be physiological expert and crap coach. The way to get better at coaching is by coaching.

The skill cluster that makes a good coach seems to contain two parts: technical knowledge and communication. I started with more of the later and have been increasing the earlier throughout my journey.

I think people tend to poo poo that progression over the inverse, but the reality is that people will become better coaches more quickly that way. It's like working in restaurants for 4 years and then going to culinary school. When you have experience to filter incoming knowledge through you can sift through that information much more efficiently and make knowledge gains faster than your peers.

The mistake that people who went to school first would make would tend towards over explaining concepts to students and vomiting irrelevant (and hurtful) details that lend to analysis paralysis.

That was a long answer for your short question but I wanted to flesh out what I felt somewhere on the internet because I think the current disc golf climate could use a little more practical coaching and a little less academia in some places.

I know my weakness is on the knowledge side so I try to make friends with the data guys. I want my coaching to be backed by the data but communicated practically.

Thanks for taking the time to put this together. I think in publishing there are no two books that have the same development process, and that's what we are talking about here—development. Still, it's always a conglomerate of known processes and methods in every case. Seems like early days in terms of having a cohesive way to describe. Cheers
 
Related, reminds me of the adage (paraphrased by a number of people), "if you ever want to learn something then teach it."

And, he's also saying he has a development process and isn't rushing every throw thought out the door as a video. That's important.
 
Related, reminds me of the adage (paraphrased by a number of people), "if you ever want to learn something then teach it."
I'm also a fan of "learning by doing." Not always applicable to coaching, but it's common for people without complete mastery of something, teaching something essential and useful to someone else. Or maybe they teach themselves and over time their knowledge evolves as it becomes more complete. Heck, a lot of people learn through (and because of) mistakes. This is why I've been very hesitant to criticize any coach - even if I disagree with some of the things they teach. I don't think any of these coaches are trying to mislead anyone, even if they might be dogmatic with some of their teachings. I'm also not a coach, and still working on my form, and I feel out of place criticizing others who are trying to help.
 
I'm also a fan of "learning by doing." Not always applicable to coaching, but it's common for people without complete mastery of something, teaching something essential and useful to someone else. Or maybe they teach themselves and over time their knowledge evolves as it becomes more complete. Heck, a lot of people learn through (and because of) mistakes. This is why I've been very hesitant to criticize any coach - even if I disagree with some of the things they teach. I don't think any of these coaches are trying to mislead anyone, even if they might be dogmatic with some of their teachings. I'm also not a coach, and still working on my form, and I feel out of place criticizing others who are trying to help.
For sure. I guess where I was going with this is that it's hard to sometimes know what you don't know. A feeling of familiarity with a subject can sometimes be confused with having good knowledge. And nothing sheds that to light more than inquisitive students and peers, in the same way as failures and mistakes inform. Just to reemphasize that you really need to put yourself out there.
 
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