Painful Grip Issues

[JR]

You can throw any disc fh and bh so a disc that fades kess than the Destroyer backhand does the same forehand. Only the flipoing is different and fh flips more usually. For disc flight generalisations there are different flight charts. Googling reveals several. They are less accurate than the descriptions of experienced players who have thrown them. With the caveat that individual discs vary a lot with some being fantastic, others average and some broken.

The Ascent is grippy when new and like premium plastics after a year. It is slow, short and fades quite a bit but given the fade it is not that straight at high power or in headwinds. Meaning it flips way less than Leos and will not flip at your power but fades twice as much as the Stalker. Not a straight disc.

The Crank is a big boy disc liking 350'+ and preferably 400' of power backhand . That is like a slightly less fading Destroyer so it could work for your dad. There are less fading fast discs that flip more. Not knowing the power of your father and how much flipping he tolerates and produces with technique i cannot in good faith recommend the flippiest ones. Even for those who like to hyzer flip. So maybe a Champion Tern or a Quasar could work. But i have only one Q Quasar of early or first run that is beefier than later production and Blizzard light ones so i have no first hand experience of regular ones. I have seen others throw regular Quasars that seem to fade less than the Destro. The best bet would be to loan discs.

The ASS or the Avenger is a roller out of the box. And with a hefty fade i would use the Ascent preferably but the Teebird even more. With the caution that some especially those with smaller hands than you have pinky scratching issues to the bottom of the rim/wing corner. Causing wobbling.

People like the Mantis but i have no experience with it nor the Zombie. If i understand correctly they both fade more than the Stalker.

 

[lucasgg]

Strange, looking at the flight ratings of the Stalker vs the Mantis... The Stalker had a flight rating of 1.1 and the Mantis had one of .8. I never really liked Discraft's rating system. How does Discraft's Z plastic age in terms of grip and firmness?


With the approach of Christmas, I'm looking at disc bags for under $70. The duffel bags look the easiest to tote around. I'm currently looking at the Dynamic Discs Soldier Bag.

 

[JR]

Second hand info on my part about the Mantis so it can be false. Usually Discraft is successful in their numbers so i would trust it. Unless it is the exception that confirms the rule.

Z is super durable and stays firm forever minus a day. The grip stays slick especially in cold weather.

Bags are a personal preference thing. Style and function play a part. Unless you haul a lot of discs, liquids and food any bag could do. Competing far away from home and food sources make a dedicated and not small bag a lot more useful. For hobby purposes even a small bag can carry enough stuff. Unfortunately many larger bags too last only a year or two tops. So i would compare military surplus store backbags too for price and size plus features. They are more durable because the design and materials are meant for rough combat use. Grass courses tax the materials and seams a lot less than rocky courses. Ibplay on a rocky hilly course often and i have damaged everything quickly also overstuffing hiking bags in filming trips abroad. Where i carry discs, sports clothing and regular clothing on top of filming equipment plus what i buy as a tourist. Nothing survived two years. Including pricey Norwegian hiking bag and it is a high tech outdoor nation where crap will not sell.

So i had to resort to French army 8 lbs 11 oz. aluminum frame backbag that is made of thick cordura look it up plus a thick coating of rubber on bottom.

After size and avoiding overstuffing i would look at the ergonomics. Too thin straps and a lot of weight dig into the shoulders and block blood circulation. Not to mention hurt. Too hard carrying elements hurt too with load. Ask me how i know if you know how much Feldberg used to haul stuff when i also carried filming equipment and water for myself caddying for him. Prior to him slightly limiting the amount of discs he used to be able to get caddies.

 

[lucasgg]

Here is how I throw. This shot went about 200 feet (estimate). My previous estimate was incorrect due to stupidity. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CKNvyiyRoqc&feature=youtu.be

 

[JR]

Your form looks like a pretty standard way of new players throwing who have not received advice. I would say that it is an faq what you need to change because that seems to be the way people throw naturally. I promise you you will gain distance after changing some basics.

Check where the disc is at the farthest point of the reach back and the separation of the disc and the hand height wise. No wonder the disc climbs a lot, slows down and stalls to the left in the end not finishing forward moving. Another factor that raises the discs is that you have so little speed going forward and not a lot of left leg forward push that you lean back from the heel up. The whole body leans back and that drops the rear of the disc and raises the front adding significant drag plus raising high fighting gravity thus losing speed all the time. The third factor in the too high front of the disc is how you grip the disc and failing to push down the hand from the wrist. If you set the rear of the disc to the innermost joint of the thumb and the front to the index/middle finger crease. Pushing the wrist down gets the disc parallel to the forearm bones or front lower. More power to you if you get the front lower without tensing up the arm too much. Tense muscles early to middle of the throw slow you down robbing distance so how far you can push the front of the disc down depends on flexibility and strength.

Do not run faster yet. It would be easier to get to be upright but it would rob future distance by not making you push hard enough with the left leg. You will need both faster speed and a quick push later. Now it will make learning the basics harder because things are fast enough to learn easily as it is. We are not naturally made to make so quick and complex moves. They have to be learned with a lot of repetitions. Thousands of throws.

You spin on the right leg immediately after it lands and it is one continuous movement. But the body should turn in three phases and the right leg should remain in place for a while. Phase one is the plant and the disc at the reach back to shifting to the right heel and ball of the foot up and the disc to the left side or the center of the body depending on you arm speed. The second phase starts when the right ball of the foot becomes airborne and then you brace the heck with the right leg and limit the rotation of the foot as much as you can until the disc is by the right pec or farther. Then in the third phase you either loosen up on the right leg or push back with it and rotate once more on the heel.

You need lots of reps inbquick succession over weeks and for most over three months to get any of it even remotely like routine. Once things go easily and smoothly it is time to slowly add speed and reach back farther by turning the heels and the back at the target in the reach back. It is a great help if you film yourself when adding speed or reaching back farther to see how and where the form deteriorates. That is where you need a diagnosis of the fault. Or the earlier cause to what goes wrong. Once the issue is identified you need to find the cure. That process is needed throughout your career because everyone suffers from form deterioration. You do not want that because it ruins confidence and leads to a vicious circle of worsening scores then worsening spirits and concentration then fear then effed up form and execution of the pre throw routine and the actual throwing motions.

 

[lucasgg]

Here's a second shot that went a little further https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MEai_tEhaIA

 

[JR]

It was pretty much the same shot with improved elbow and disc position when the elbow starts to straighten. Probably from bracing but even longer bracing by a fraction of a second would help. Unfortunately the main robber of distance remains the disc goes nose up too high and stalls. It really takes a hard to full effort and super quickly to push enough with the left leg to get you upright when the disc leaves.

 

[lucasgg]

Ok, how would recommend producing more "leg power"? Bending my knees or maybe taking smaller steps to make the weight change easier? I've also considered throwing sooner instead of so late.

 

[lucasgg]

Also keeping my arm down further and bending over, into my throw to compensate for leaning towards my heels. (which makes me feel like a really flimsy thrower)

 

[JR]

You can be surprised by how much quicker and faster you can push with the left leg when you set your mind to it. The command from the brain needs to be quick not strong. Bending the knees will absolutely help just look at Will Shusterick for a strong brace and position from where to push and accelerate with the leg. The longer the movement the faster it is. And legs are the strongest muscles used in a throw. Height does make a difference and there are individual variations to optimal height of the pull based on flexibility and muscle size. Really muscular players cannot pull as easily at shoulder level as lean players. I have seen people throwing at belt to above shoulder height. I have lean muscles and am limber and cannot get loose enough with over the shoulder height and i know beefy throwers that cannot make shoulder height work. You should measure pull height with distance of the throw not comfort. You will adjust over time and previously uncomfortable height can become natural. It did for me with shoulder high pulls. The higher you pull the less the arm swing part of rising component of the throw will stall the disc high. It is less of a problem for you than being weight back. Once you get upright you may find that your current arm use is good for putter drives because they need height to go far and fading little many putters are less sensitive to stalling or nose up flight attitude.

Step length varies with speed and if left legged long jumping does not increase fairly quickly with form changes and that quick movement command from the brain you might already be commanding the muscles well. That is a surprisingly large deficit vs top athletes. Muscle control in a hobby athlete vs world top can vary from 30-60 % so a lot of muscle cells do not work at all! Which is why training can create results. I have heard that in three first months of weight lifting most advances come from learning how to recruit more muscle cells to work than making old cells work harder and gaining new cells.

While shorter steps do help in getting weight forward it can persuade you to not train the left leg push quick enough for good distance in the future.