[Discraft] Paul Mcbeth Luna review

[SD86]

Paul understands that his disc golf "reign" will be relatively short-lived and he is trying to establish his brand to carry him beyond his playing days. Probably the smartest disc golfer out there.

Certainly one of the most business-savvy.

He's changing the paradigm and pioneering a new era for Professional DG, as well. :thmbup:

 

[CheatingLeftyDG]

For those wondering about the Luna vs Roach. The below link is my comparison of the Big Z Luna VS Big Z Roach. As mention on here, if you throw around 250 they are very very similar.
https://youtu.be/Oqg06VMDtK0

 

[thenomad]

He joined Discraft for the PM brand, not just the money.

Just my opinion but your comment defies common sense and basic logic. The PM brand is all about money. I don't blame the guy at all for selling out. Most people would in that situation. But it's still just the cold hard truth that he's a sell out. The fan boys will deny it but it is what it is. All the fake marketing in disc golf is hard to digest. And hard to ignore. The companies are treating golfers like puppets.....

 

[thenomad]

Certainly one of the most business-savvy.

Nice way of putting it, but agree.

The downfall is that it's becoming less about golf.....

 

[DiscJunkie]

thenomad,
I'm not sure what your point is.
However, I may have stated my point poorly.
Let me see if I can explain better.
He was making good money with Innova, maybe even great money. I think Ian with CCDG said he paid six figures just in taxes in his last year or two with Innova.
However, he knew that Innova was never going to let PM develop his brand. Innova is all about Innova. They were never going to let him design or co-own anything. He had signature discs, but they were all just Innova discs with his signature.
Then...
He negotiates with Discraft, gets a salary, and in less than a year he comes out with his line of PM discs. Driver, fairway driver, mid and putter. Not just signature discs, but PM discs.
Is he making the same or more with Discraft? Maybe only PM knows for sure, but with Discraft he is building a brand, a line of discs and even sponsoring tourneys. Paul is building his future, not just being a cash cow for Innova.
He was willing to sacrifice all that money from Innova to build a business, a brand and a future with Discraft. And BTW, he may just be making more $$ with Discraft. Win - win.
Is that a better explanation?

 

[thenomad]

thenomad,
I'm not sure what your point is.
However, I may have stated my point poorly.
Let me see if I can explain better.
He was making good money with Innova, maybe even great money. I think Ian with CCDG said he paid six figures just in taxes in his last year or two with Innova.
However, he knew that Innova was never going to let PM develop his brand. Innova is all about Innova. They were never going to let him design or co-own anything. He had signature discs, but they were all just Innova discs with his signature.
Then...
He negotiates with Discraft, gets a salary, and in less than a year he comes out with his line of PM discs. Driver, fairway driver, mid and putter. Not just signature discs, but PM discs.
Is he making the same or more with Discraft? Maybe only PM knows for sure, but with Discraft he is building a brand, a line of discs and even sponsoring tourneys. Paul is building his future, not just being a cash cow for Innova.
He was willing to sacrifice all that money from Innova to build a business, a brand and a future with Discraft. And BTW, he may just be making more $$ with Discraft. Win - win.
Is that a better explanation?

You're still lacking common sense. Innova is no different from Discraft in that they are both profit seeking entities. Discraft is obviously using Paul to their advantage much more than Innova ever did. But that's because Innova cares more about providing quality product than it does providing a name on a disc. Big difference. Discraft would've released paper plates with Paul's name on it if it wasn't able to design some new discs in about 5 minutes flat LMAO

How did he sacrifice anything by going to a different company to make more money? LOL that's not sacrifice at all. It's the opposite actually. He took the money and ran. And again, I don't blame him for it.

You're actually just solidifying my point that he's all about the money. And talking about what someone said about what someone else supposedly paid in taxes. I mean really bruh? Lol

 

[thenomad]

Soooooo Discraft isn't all about Discraft?

lol of course they welcome the "PM brand." Because they pretty much own PM now. If the PM brand does well, guess what that means for Discraft? More sales. Not that they need the PM brand though. Discraft made a few sales before Paul showed up..........

Good for Paul's pockets but I wouldn't want to be a walking billboard puppet for a brand I never cared about. But that's just me....

 

[thenomad]

Also important to realize that the putter, midrange, and driver that you refer to are actually Discraft's discs. They're not Paul's. If Paul falls off this year, Discraft could take the Luna and put someone else's name on it if they want. You got it all the way twisted. Whatever money Discraft gave Paul for his contract, they probably earned that back in the first day of sales lol Moral of the lesson: Don't sell yourself short if you're going to sell yourself.

Manufacturers are why the game never grows. The money needs to be in tournament payouts instead of sponsorships.......

 

[bbwrenn]

Also important to realize that the putter, midrange, and driver that you refer to are actually Discraft's discs. They're not Paul's. If Paul falls off this year, Discraft could take the Luna and put someone else's name on it if they want. You got it all the way twisted.

I'm not so sure it's that simple. His name is literally in the mold. (Check the rim)

I believe they probably have a written agreement as to how the disc line works if/when Paul leaves Discraft, and it's probably not as simple as Discraft saying "yoink, these are ours now, thanks chump!" Pretty sure they'll either be paying him royalties or possibly unable to run them at all without some sort of agreement. Co-ownership.

Could be completely wrong, but based on the move Paul made and the situation that has unfolded, I have serious doubts that Discraft owns the PM molds 100%.

 

[bbwrenn]

Closer to on topic, when are we going to get some actual stock run premium lunas? Holy crap, this roach flies fine but I'd like to at least TRY a luna in a premium plastic.

Just feel like Discraft/PM is missing the boat on the cash cow a bit. The limited runs build hype, but then don't you need to follow up by cashing in on said hype?

 

[thenomad]

I'm not so sure it's that simple. His name is literally in the mold. (Check the rim)

I believe they probably have a written agreement as to how the disc line works if/when Paul leaves Discraft, and it's probably not as simple as Discraft saying "yoink, these are ours now, thanks chump!" Pretty sure they'll either be paying him royalties or possibly unable to run them at all without some sort of agreement. Co-ownership.

Could be completely wrong, but based on the move Paul made and the situation that has unfolded, I have serious doubts that Discraft owns the PM molds 100%.

You'd have to see his contract to make those claims. I haven't seen it either. But it's Discraft's molds. As long as Paul's name is on it then I'm sure he will get a royalty. But it's easy to make a new batch of Luna without his name on it. It's not co-ownership, it's whatever the contract says and contracts expire.

 

[thenomad]

Closer to on topic, when are we going to get some actual stock run premium lunas? Holy crap, this roach flies fine but I'd like to at least TRY a luna in a premium plastic.

Just feel like Discraft/PM is missing the boat on the cash cow a bit. The limited runs build hype, but then don't you need to follow up by cashing in on said hype?

Theyre trying their hardest to be just like Nike while being a tiny fraction of Nike's size. They want to be a marketing company that sells low quality discs at a high price. If they could have their discs made in Asian children sweatshops for a penny cheaper, they would

 

[thenomad]

To clarify, they never would take his name off as long as he is relevant. Who do you think Discraft is using to sell the discs? Most wouldn't want a Luna if it didn't have his name on it

 

[bbwrenn]

I am making an assumption to say that Paul co-owns the molds with his name on them. But, you are doing the same thing to assume Discraft just straight owns it and he'll get nothing when and because they say so. I don't believe he would have accepted that deal. He has a lot of pride in the "brand" he's created, and I don't think he'd accept a deal for royalties only. Again, it's an assumption, but so is yours.

To have his name etched into the actual mold says a lot, to me. They'll have to grind that down carefully in order to remove it. They can certainly do that, but to me the fact that they added it to begin with is a long haul move. For example, there was an old run of wizards with a divot in the rim from where they sanded off some imperfection and didn't do it perfectly. It's a pretty precise art.

If your argument is "we can't see the contract and can't know much of anything", then fair enough. But to say Discraft owns everything and Paul just gets some royalties at the time being, that's an assumption just as big as mine and frankly I think less likely.

Good food for thought, though. :hfive:

 

[thenomad]

I am making an assumption to say that Paul co-owns the molds with his name on them. But, you are doing the same thing to assume Discraft just straight owns it and he'll get nothing when and because they say so. I don't believe he would have accepted that deal. He has a lot of pride in the "brand" he's created, and I don't think he'd accept a deal for royalties only. Again, it's an assumption, but so is yours.

To have his name etched into the actual mold says a lot, to me. They'll have to grind that down carefully in order to remove it. They can certainly do that, but to me the fact that they added it to begin with is a long haul move. For example, there was an old run of wizards with a divot in the rim from where they sanded off some imperfection and didn't do it perfectly. It's a pretty precise art.

If your argument is "we can't see the contract and can't know much of anything", then fair enough. But to say Discraft owns everything and Paul just gets some royalties at the time being, that's an assumption just as big as mine and frankly I think less likely.

Good food for thought, though. :hfive:

Actually it's just common sense. I'm not assuming that Discraft is the company here and the manufacturer of the discs. Of course they own the molds. The only thing Paul owns is his little brand lol. It's not assuming anything. That's just how athlete-sponsor contracts are structured. It would've been all over the pipeline of news if Paul actually bought into Discraft and has part ownership. That's like saying Lebron owns the molds to his sneakers LOL not in a million years. The company just makes money off their name and in return the athlete gets a nice contract (you called it a salary for Paul but who knows). It took Nike over 10 years to make back the money they were paying Lebron in contract. For Discraft my guess is it took 1 day.......

But yeah, as long as their name is on the product they will be getting at least a royalty. But their name won't always be on their product, depending

 

[thenomad]

It was probably more like something where they allowed him to put his logo on the disc and called it even lol Paul's brand needs Discraft much more than vice versa. And you can safely assume that he's probably not getting paid anything near what you think he is lol (although he should be)

 

[Fly_High]

Wow man. What got up your craw?

You know Paul could own the molds without owning any part of the company right? Not saying that's the case, I have no insight into the workings of his contract. It is possible though.

Also, your "common sense" argument makes no sense because you also have no insight in his deal with Discraft. You may be right, you may be wrong. Assuming you are correct because that's "how it's been done" is exactly that, an assumption.

Glad I got my two cents in here. Very useful to all I'm sure.

Also, what I hear is Paul is getting $4 per disc in his disc line(Luna, Zeus, etc) and there have been over 120K Zeus's sold thus far. This is definitely hearsay from a source I trust but that doesn't mean it's true.

Paul is making bank for a disc golfer.

 

[bbwrenn]

At this point, I've got to assume you're just trolling me. You keep putting words in my mouth. I never claimed Paul had part ownership in Discraft, nor did I say he had a salary. Please show me where I said either of those things. Or don't bother, because this is my last post on the topic. No hard feelings.

I said that Paul likely owns part of his PM line of molds. I still believe this. Not physical parts, the intellectual property. If they part ways, I don't believe Discraft can continue to run those molds without removing his name. And vice versa. If Discraft chooses to discontinue them, Paul cannot simply hire someone to make him a new mold and continue making his discs. There would be documentation about how and when they part ways, what happens to the disc line.

Further, I don't think either party anticipates that sort of disagreement any time soon, as his name is literally carved into the molds and will be difficult to remove. Not stamped, carved. Check the rim.

If you think they added that kind of tooling to the mold just to give someone 2 bucks a frisbee, I'm not sure what to tell you. I disagree.

 

[thenomad]

He says $4 a disc, you say $2. We'll call it $3.

He doesn't own the molds because he's not a disc manufacturer. Probably couldn't even afford it. But yes, I could see something in the contract that he gets compensated for each sale (which is why I called it a royalty but that's more after he's done playing). His name on the inner rim would be easy to change on the mold. But again, they would never do that because his name is making them $$$$$$$$

And true to the guy who said he's making bank for a disc golfer. I may not agree with how it happened or is happening, but it's about time.

He should be able to make a living for being the best at his craft and shouldn't have to sell out to a brand for that to happen. IMO. Only $10k given to world champion, before tax......

 

[thenomad]

Obviously he owns the intellectual rights to his name. I was just pointing out the fact that an athlete-company contract is not co-ownership. Big difference. But yeah, only owners of Discraft would be able to claim ownership on the molds. Which is why I said he would need to buy in. That's how ownership works most of the time lol

Your favorite music star isn't making as much you think they are either