Pay to Play? Is it Okay?

[therealbigtrav]

Are there really that many free courses converting to pay to play? I don't understand where people are thinking adding pay to play courses, especially private ones, are going to effect free courses. Unless the parks departments start charging for all activities in the park (basketball, tennis, volleyball), I don't think disc golf will be singled out. A great majority of the courses around me are still free.

 

[Cgkdisc]

Over time, many free public courses will end up with some form of pay-to-play IF the Park Dept determines a way to handle it. Note that's a big "if" based on the property. Many parks don't have controlled access (fencing) or a way to monitor access (staffing). So those who wish for free courses will not lose them in many places. But with funding sources stressed or drying up, some of them will fall into disrepair, rely on volunteer mowing and maintenance or be removed.

One thing disc golf has that ball golf doesn't have is the ability to play a legitimate game in many parks by creating your own course. Ball golf needs mowing and greens. DG just needs some vertical obstacles for holing out.

 

[Midnightbiker]

One of the things that Pay To Play might bring, is it will keep people from just walking onto the course, if the property is secured some way. Also, if tends to keep some of the riff raff away, because they tend to play the free courses.

I don't see a problem with it as long as the prices are reasonable.

 

[Paulie]

Free Disney Land and other such hyperbole. An apples and orange beach balls comparison. The only thing those things have in common is that they are things.

Disney Land is a private theme park built on private land and run by a private company. It has rides, games, concessions, gift shops, hotels, theaters, exhibits, in park transports and a huge staff to cater to its patrons during operating hours. 24 hours a day even if you stay at a Disney hotel. The local DG course in the local public park is and has none of that.

I don't see where anyone here is against private courses on private land being pay to play. If there is, they are wrong. If someone buys land and installs a course, they have every right to charge for a round. Power to 'em.

Would a proliferation of private p2p courses drive down the quality and quantity of public courses? Maybe. If enough people quit going to the public ones in favor of the private ones, the local gov may decide it's not worth having the public ones any more. If that's the way the cookie crumbles, we'll just have to deal with it.

 

[denny ritner]

I truly believe that a snobby pay to play attitude will inevitably lead to the sport becoming more exclusive and generally less fun.

That's exactly why I quit bowling, I couldn't stand the pay to play snobbiness anymore!

 

[Stetz1010]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-J9UtX6GiE


If pay-to-play keeps me away from these people, then I'm all for it.

 

[wkelly42]

I imagine there were some free to play public ball golf courses back in the day. How about now?

Wow -- that's some imagination you've got

Seriously, ball golf has always been a pay to play proposition. It's always been pretty expensive, too. I don't see disc golf going to that extreme, ever.

One thing you have to factor in when you talk about pay to play -- the majority of p2p courses are private. If I create something on my property and want to charge people to use it (to offset my costs), who are you to stop me? It's private property.

I'm not thrilled with public parks charging extra just for disc golf (though I haven't run into that situation yet; most public parks that charge do so for everyone going in, not just for specific activities). I don't see that they would make enough to make it worthwhile, considering that they're paying people to take the money. I don't see that a pro shop in and of itself would make that much money either, if you factor in overhead.

Amenities cost money. Sometimes you can get sponsorships that will offset the expense, sometimes you can get donations. Most often, you spend either your own money or taxpayer money. There's nothing wrong with expecting to recoup your money when you shell it out for something others enjoy. Some people don't have that expectation, and are willing to open their courses for free. But it's unreasonable to expect everyone to.

 

[Dthunderchicken]

Wow -- that's some imagination you've got

Seriously, ball golf has always been a pay to play proposition. It's always been pretty expensive, too.

Not when I was started bolfing. (early `70s) (quit by the mid `70s too) There were public park courses that charged during peak times and were free during off peak. One even had loaner clubs. I'll admit that even the cheap pitch and putt courses were better than most public ones though. Too much traffic.

As for pay to play, I'll do it if the course is worth it. If it gets too expensive or crowded, there's always object golf.

 

[Fishy]

I'm curious, how many out there know of or have p2p courses in public parks? I don't recall ever seeing this, outside of courses in state parks that charge a use fee for day use. I have seen a few "suggested donation" boxes but thats about it.

Beaver Ranch just went p2p

 

[Fishy]

I just dropped my $50 for my annual Jellystone Pass for 2012. I know I gave Ian over $130 this year cause I "didn't think I'd play that much there". I was the first one to purchase it. Well worth it, no "chuckers" excellent course..

 

[SteveDG]

I'd Pay

There are not too many pay to plays in Orange County, CA. But I would be willing to pay if I had to. I am new to the sport. And I'm fastly becoming hooked.

I only know one Place I have to pay, and often I've only gone there with change. The guys that run the Pro shop usually just tell me to give them the extra dollar next time I come. $1 weekdays and $2 on the weekends to make sure someone changes up the baskets every couple of weeks and mows the grass seems like a nominal charge. I'm cool with that.

 

[scarpfish]

The courses I play are not restricted to DG only. They have walking paths on them. Should people pay a fee to walk the paths? They have playgrounds. Should people pay a fee to play on them? If people want to come to the park and just walk around in the woods, should they pay a fee for that? How about a dog walking fee? Or a fee for some kids tossing a football back and forth? Picnic fees? Bird watching fees? If not, why should DGers pay a fee for our activity when others are not paying fees for theirs?

This is why I continually reassure people that most of our existing tracts are never going to go pay for play. We don't have exclusive use of the property and would have a good bone to pick in those cases if a fee system were suggested.

 

[jeffmonty]

Beaver Ranch just went p2p

I had not heard that about Beaver Ranch. Is that one of Denver's mountain parks or does it belong to Evergreen? Are they going to charge a parking fee or something like that? I've played Phantom Falls and had no issues paying the $10. Paulie's put in a lot of work and you get your money's worth. You also get a top-notch course virtually to yourself. As many have said, the higher quality of the p2p experience is well worth the nominal fee. I mean, $5 /day or $50/yr. pass?? C'mon, stick a crowbar in your wallet. There will ALWAYS be free places to play.(And, I got to get to Jellystone next time I get home!)

 

[Fishy]

I had not heard that about Beaver Ranch. Is that one of Denver's mountain parks or does it belong to Evergreen? Are they going to charge a parking fee or something like that? I've played Phantom Falls and had no issues paying the $10. Paulie's put in a lot of work and you get your money's worth. You also get a top-notch course virtually to yourself. As many have said, the higher quality of the p2p experience is well worth the nominal fee. I mean, $5 /day or $50/yr. pass?? C'mon, stick a crowbar in your wallet. There will ALWAYS be free places to play.(And, I got to get to Jellystone next time I get home!)

It's a public park for Jefferson County(?). It went p2p in August, last time I played was in July. Haven't gotten back up there, they charge $3 I think, but they are talking about doing concrete next year and another 18 hole course just south(?) of the current course. Again way worth the money. When you get back let me know I'll show you the ropes of Jellystone, it's rapidly becoming my home course. Even more so now that I bought a year pass.

 

[jpass21]

I don't want people to think that I am completely against pay-to-play courses. I certainly understand the benefits of exclusivity. For some people, the game and competition are the most important aspect of disc golf. For those people I believe pay-to-play courses are a great option. For others, however, we enjoy having the excuse to take a long nature walk (most of the courses around me are off the beaten paths) and casually toss a few discs with friends. The actual sport is less important than the experience of playing it. And especially beloved is the chance to play at new courses.

Many of you have assured me that free courses are not going away. My concern is that with pay to play courses popularity rising, fewer and fewer new courses will be free. Combine that with the older free courses falling into utter disrepair and it is easy to see why myself and others are concerned. I feel that my attitude on this has been misinterpreted as a hate of paying for things which is far from accurate. So many sports and activities cost money these days it was just nice to have one that didn't.

 

[DavidSauls]

I wouldn't be concerned that fewer and fewer new courses will be free. As someone posted pages back, the vast majority of new courses this year are free, and that's unlikely to change. Nor are they especially likely to fall into disrepair. In fact, I'll bet private courses fall into disrepair at a much greater rate than free public courses.

Disc golf is expanding its base with more children and families and schools getting involved. Hopefully this means more attention from parks departments and even more, better free courses.

The pay-to-play isn't always about exclusivity (though that can be a benefit). It's about a way to make a great course where, otherwise, there wouldn't be a course at all. It makes private properties available which may be far superior to the land available in public parks. These are some of the reasons that so much of the Top 10 is pay-to-play.

 

[bradharris]

Disc golf courses cost money. They require land, baskets, tee pads, signs etc. The question is who is actually paying for it? As I see it, there are four potential sources. I think most courses use some combination of the four.

1. Taxpayers - These are public courses. They are built with public funds on public land under the control of local government (usually a parks department). Since the locals are funding the course with their tax dollars, these courses can be made available for little to no fee.

2. Players - By charging a fee, you put the cost on the players who actually use the course.

3. Sponsors - By offering advertising around the course (such as on tee signs), course owners can get course funds through sponsorship. However, because a disc golf course is not particularly fertile advertising ground (small audience), it's hard to fully fund a course with advertising.

4. Owners - In a sense, this is the same as option 1 (where taxpayers are the owners), where someone with the land and financial resources decides to build a course and allow anyone to play for free. Outside of the public, taxpayer funded model, this rarely exists (if at all).

The money has to come from somewhere, and with more money comes better upkeep and amenities.

 

[Danger]

There aren't any courses out here that are falling into a state of disrepair because we have so many people playing disc golf. Each course is respected and well taken care of by its locals. Perhaps if your local older courses aren't getting any respect, they SHOULD be pulled and put to use elsewhere p2p or not. Although in our urban jungle, having too many courses would definitely be a dream for us out here!

 

[therealbigtrav]

Jpass21, I understand your concern that there won't be any non pay to play courses in the future. I started to play on non pay to play courses myself, as I'm certain many others did. I just think that some people see more pay to play courses open, they assume that has to mean less "free" courses. It's not like the highlander, where eventually there can only be one. The truth of the matter as it stands today is that adding more pay to play adds more courses, which everyone can agree is great. Until I see free courses start to disappear in my area, I won't have any cause for concern.

 

[DavidSauls]

278 U.S. courses in the directory with a 2011 install date. 237 of them are free to play. 93 of the free courses have at least 18 holes. 53 of the free courses have a rating of 3.0 or higher with at least three reviews.

There's plenty of brand new opportunities to play free disc golf on a decent layout. Any notion that its being taken away because pay courses exist is just ludicrous.

Thought I'd bring this set of facts back into the discussion. Thanks, Scarpfish.