[Prodigy] PDGA Addresses Overweight Disc Issue

[Phantom Discs]

Read this on the PDGA site. I figured I would share.

 

[Halcón]

This has been posted and discussed ad nauseum. Sorry my friend.

 

[prerube]

I posted this same thread and it was deleted for some reason.

 

[pspunch]

Ermahgerd!!!

 

[ohtobediscing]

Maybe that'll learn some here not to go "Cabbage Patch Kid"-crazy for untested companies. But I doubt it.

 

[KDDEBOER]

I posted this same thread and it was deleted for some reason.

Seems like every thread I've seen about overweight discs has been deleted. Someone must have a grudge against this ruling. lol. As it stands, I'm glad to see an official statement and hope that it's taken at least somewhat seriously by players and companies.

 

[thechamp]

I still don't like the idea of players sharing in the responisbility. The manufacturers would have no problem making discs within specs and should be subject to fines and penalties if they don't. I'm currently not buying max weight discs and have been weighing my discs before I throw them. Ridiculous :thmbdown:

 

[rakeyohn]

I still don't like the idea of players sharing in the responisbility. The manufacturers would have no problem making discs within specs and should be subject to fines and penalties if they don't. I'm currently not buying max weight discs and have been weighing my discs before I throw them. Ridiculous :thmbdown:

You want a governing body that has no real power to issue fines to small business that are pretty small in terms of manufacturing?? I would imagin if the pdga took this stance on issues they wouldn't exist for long. Every manufacture let's some heavy discs slip through and if a player is passionate about playing in tourts his responsibility to play by the rules of the game and make sure his equipment is within spec of the game he is choosing to play.

 

[emerica1842]

You want a governing body that has no real power to issue fines to small business that are pretty small in terms of manufacturing??

Why would the PDGA issue fines to a company? I think if a company knowingly kept producing overweight discs, the PDGA would just rescind their approval of the disc. Oh wait, they haven't and won't do that to Innova who produces thousands of discs marked 175, and around 1/3rd of them are overweight.

Every manufacture let's some heavy discs slip through and if a player is passionate about playing in tourts his responsibility to play by the rules of the game and make sure his equipment is within spec of the game he is choosing to play.

I agree with this.

 

[tbird888]

Why would the PDGA issue fines to a company? I think if a company knowingly kept producing overweight discs, the PDGA would just rescind their approval of the disc. Oh wait, they haven't and won't do that to Innova who produces thousands of discs marked 175, and around 1/3rd of them are overweight.

If the PDGA revoked approval of every disc that was produced overweight, we'd be throwing nothing.

 

[emerica1842]

If the PDGA revoked approval of every disc that was produced overweight, we'd be throwing nothing.

If a person, that regularly plays in PDGA tournaments and knows the rules, knew a disc was overweight, ethically they shouldn't buy it if they plan on using it in sanction events, but some probably still would. Which is why the PDGA is saying it's the manufacturers' and players' responsibility to produce and use equipment that meet their standards.

 

[wake911]

I'm dealing with this right now. I bought a bunch of LE Z Drones, and they are ALL overweight. Dynamic took my unthrown ones back (kickass service fyi) but then they weighed all in their stock and none are within 1.5g of being in weight. I e-mailed disccraft and they basically admitted it is REALLY tough to make a legal Z Drone. And they weren't making anymore, so now i'm SOL after falling in love with this disc.

I wish i never would have tried to weigh my discs and play legal. Just have been ignorant like everyone else, ugh.

I feel, that it should be the manufacturer who is in charge of legal standard of disc production. They should have to do spot checks, or weigh every disc. If illegal discs (overweight) get used in tourneys and found, they should be removed from tourney play, and the manufacturer should be penalized. I know that isn't possible right now, but until the manufacturer feels the pain, why would they change? MOST disc golfers don't play PDGA tourneys, so there is no incentive for them to actively pursue over weight discs in house.

I weighed about 50 discs i have. all 4 of my drones were over weight, i had a couple of innova drivers that wer ~.1-.2g over, and the majority were at least .5-1.0g below marked weight.

And i bet that the reason previous thread was closed is due to single comments that crossed a line of rude ness or something like that. Only takes on post to derail a thread past landfill.

 

[smyith]

I still don't like the idea of players sharing in the responisbility. The manufacturers would have no problem making discs within specs and should be subject to fines and penalties if they don't. I'm currently not buying max weight discs and have been weighing my discs before I throw them. Ridiculous :thmbdown:

Well, there are environmental factors that play a part in the weight....although only slightly. Moisture/humidity has an effect on discs, especially the more porous ones. So realistically the same disc in AZ will weigh less than if it was in say FL.

Personally I think the solution is incredibly easy. Submit discs a few grams over your intended "max weight" for approval. Then if it goes over a little there is nothing to be concerned with. So company running discs at 175 for max should submit max weight discs at 178+. That should cancel out the majority of illegal discs. It always seemed silly to leave yourself with a 1g or less tolerance.

Or players could just realize that a 173g disc is no different from a 175. But then they wouldn't get to say max weight anymore....

And i bet that the reason previous thread was closed is due to single comments that crossed a line of rude ness or something like that. Only takes on post to derail a thread past landfill.

Which is why they should remove individual comments not entire threads. Would make a WHOLE lot more LOGIC

 

[tbird888]

If a person, that regularly plays in PDGA tournaments and knows the rules, knew a disc was overweight, ethically they shouldn't buy it if they plan on using it in sanction events, but some probably still would. Which is why the PDGA is saying it's the manufacturers' and players' responsibility to produce and use equipment that meet their standards.

Disc weight changes all the time, especially with premium plastic. A little humidity in the air can push a legal disc into illegal territory. It's not as cut and dry as "this disc weighs 174.6 grams and will always weigh 174.6 grams".

In the case above about the overweight Z Drones, Discraft KNOWINGLY produced overweight discs in the same fashion that Gateway KNOWINGLY produced too firm of Wizards. They're both giving the customer what they want. I think this should be a push for the PDGA to either take action against everybody (not just the one company they happened to stumble upon through dumb luck) or reexamine their standards.

I know I keep making this point, but if the PDGA isn't going to enforce their own standards (not rules), why even have them? Hiding behind the "figure it out for yourself" excuse is unacceptable except with rules of play in tournaments. You can't expect a TD to pull out a scale and weigh/perform a flex test on a potentially illegal disc. Either proactively enforce your own standards or remove them. Because discs (in general) don't have unique run identifiers, catching and removing an illegal run after it's hit store shelves is too late.

 

[wake911]

Well, there are environmental factors that play a part in the weight....although only slightly. Moisture/humidity has an effect on discs, especially the more porous ones. So realistically the same disc in AZ will weigh less than if it was in say FL.

Personally I think the solution is incredibly easy. Submit discs a few grams over your intended "max weight" for approval. Then if it goes over a little there is nothing to be concerned with. So company running discs at 175 for max should submit max weight discs at 178+. That should cancel out the majority of illegal discs. It always seemed silly to leave yourself with a 1g or less tolerance.

Or players could just realize that a 173g disc is no different from a 175. But then they wouldn't get to say max weight anymore....



Which is why they should remove individual comments not entire threads. Would make a WHOLE lot more LOGIC

One comment can lead to TONS of followup though, so i get it.

The max weight is based on diameter of disc, so they can't really change that. Now innova could build a disc that has max weight of 175.1, and not try to run anything over 172g, but can't increase the max weight and then run what they currently are running.

 

[Mr. America]

I am amazed at the liberal minded logic of "it's not my fault I'm doing something illegal and it's not my responsibility to check myself to make sure I am playing by the rules, it's somebody elses"

****ing WOW!

 

[Future_Primitive]

I am amazed at the liberal minded logic of "it's not my fault I'm doing something illegal and it's not my responsibility to check myself to make sure I am playing by the rules, it's somebody elses"

****ing WOW!

Oh look, Mr Ignorant wants to bring politics into it...YEAH!!

Sure put all the blame on the player who went to the store and picked up a disc they liked that was stamped PDGA Approved and purchased the item.

Don't blame the manufacturer who knowingly or unknowingly produced out of spec product and chose to push it out the door anyways. Same manufacturer that somehow bypasses QC checks and puts false stickers on discs.

Don't blame the store who brought them in and also refused to help head this off and weigh the discs. Why go thru the hassle of refusing out of spec product when you can just put it on the shelf and move on.

Don't blame the PDGA who takes the money from the manufacturer, approves their molds and then puts all the responsibility on everyone else but themselves. Surely they dont want to turn away money, just responsibility and accountability.

But by golly those scumbag players are just the worst, paying full price for a brand new disc stamped PDGA approved and taking it to the course to perform illegal activities with. When will they grow up and purchase a scale to weigh every disc, a QC dept to bring along with them to the disc store to head off the problem and a governing body of their own to deem the legal or illegal. Players are the worst.

 

[mndiscg]

I'm never going to weigh a disc and nobody is ever going to bother me about it.

 

[joe_kool315]

Typical response GT ...


go WAY over in left field somewhere when all Mr. A was saying is players need to take responsibility TOO instead of saying "well it says approved" when they know full well it's out of spec. I know and have seen folks seek and purchase discs they know are overweight purposefully. AND, once you (anyone) know(s) a disc is out of spec, you're (they're) in the wrong for using it in tourney play, no ifs, ands or butts.

That's the reality of it. Do people use performance enhancing drugs in sports knowing they're illegal; you'd be an idiot to think otherwise. Are people going to knowingly used heavy (performance enhancing I would assume) discs in tournaments, you betcha. AND they'll deny to hellnback they knew it was too heavy if they get caught. Some players will always take the high road and some will always do whatever they think will give them the edge. That's from the top of any sport, all the way to the scrub trying to get a break.

The choice is yours what side of the line you want to be on!

 

[wake911]

Oh look, Mr Ignorant wants to bring politics into it...YEAH!!

Sure put all the blame on the player who went to the store and picked up a disc they liked that was stamped PDGA Approved and purchased the item.

Don't blame the manufacturer who knowingly or unknowingly produced out of spec product and chose to push it out the door anyways. Same manufacturer that somehow bypasses QC checks and puts false stickers on discs.

Don't blame the store who brought them in and also refused to help head this off and weigh the discs. Why go thru the hassle of refusing out of spec product when you can just put it on the shelf and move on.

Don't blame the PDGA who takes the money from the manufacturer, approves their molds and then puts all the responsibility on everyone else but themselves. Surely they dont want to turn away money, just responsibility and accountability.

But by golly those scumbag players are just the worst, paying full price for a brand new disc stamped PDGA approved and taking it to the course to perform illegal activities with. When will they grow up and purchase a scale to weigh every disc, a QC dept to bring along with them to the disc store to head off the problem and a governing body of their own to deem the legal or illegal. Players are the worst.

Ha, loved this rant.

I think the biggest problem is that the majority of disc golfers and discs are not for PDGA sanctioned tourney play. Then it doesn't freaking matter. But that brings up a point of. If the majority of discs are used outside sanctioned tourneys, why is weight really an issue for tourney players? If it is a safety issue, then during tourney play i am WAY less likely to hit a random than during casual play. So the safety issue really falls to the wayside.

There either needs to be a way to enforce this at the manufacturer, or provide more leeway in the rule. Forcing the player to go through the BS i've had to (since i did buy a scale, calibrated it, and weighed all my discs, wishing i never had found this board, so i wouldn't have had any idea about overweight discs) Now i have to change my bag to meet the rules that I previously trusted that the "allegedly" legal discs I bought were actually illegal. It turns out the manufacturer's just don't give a rats ass, since most folks don't play tourneys where anything could happen.

I give props (not sure how it came up though) to Prodigy for making a broad statement and actively trying to fix the issue and bring in there discs to be in the correct weight.