PDGA rule update needed, need as many signatures as possible!!!

[Pwingles]

If you don't want to click the link first;
"PDGA rule 305 A stating: "Players are required to walk during their tournament rounds at all PDGA events unless alternate transportation such as golf carts are provided within the regular event entry fee (not as an opt-in) to all players within a single competitive division."

The reason for this extra effort is so that we can continue to accommodate Andre Anderson, a disabled veteran, to play as he has for 4 years using his cart. Despite no complaints until now, it was brought to the attention of the PDGA, and I received an e mail reminding me of the rule. The extra effort and cost, to make carts available, is well worth it to several local players and Disc Golf Monkey. In an age where our society is focusing on inclusion, we believe that this rule needs to be changed to allow more handicapped players the opportunity to play this great game.

It is my understanding that the PDGA is currently looking into this entire situation. I hope and believe with the support of the American Disability Act and the Wounded Warriors' support, this rule can be changed soon. After all, it is the Right thing to allow reasonable accommodations for persons with disabilities to compete in any event (both Non-sanctioned and PDGA sanctioned).
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This guy is a local, and a big part of our local disc golf community. He lost a leg below the knee serving and wears a prosthetic. For him, walking the entire length of an event is not feasable. This rule is obviously poorly worded at best and needs to be changed to allow for scenarios like this to be free of discrimination.


TIA

https://www.change.org/p/pdga-reque...S5cGBLPsbTNSw90vn0wVIo10Yk6d4k5GhHeUrFc5i65Ps

 

[wolfmandragon]

As long as the event is not a timed event, I think it should be optional for the TD to decide where either to allow carts on the course. Opening it up to all events would be reckless and endanger multiple lives.

There is no reason ever that someone should ever have a golf cart on most East Tennessee courses; that would be both a deadly hazard to all players and a lawsuit waiting to happen.

Not trying to be a jerk, but I am not for sure if your proposal is very well thought out. I oppose it

 

[krupicka]

The no cart rule has been around since at least 2010.

 

[Pwingles]

I think you are right, it should be up to the TD in the end. At the moment, it is not worded that way.

There are a lot of courses that do not allow for vehicles like that, either from some sort of local mandate because its a public area maybe, or because of the terrain itself. Currently, the way it is written, the only way around it is to provide carts for the whole of the division said player is playing in. That responsibility is currently on the event host or td. We achieved that this past weekend, but in the future who knows. It should not be the TDs responsibility to do that, imo. Especially right now, providing a cart doesn't mean that 2-4 people can use it, which would make it easier. Because of Covid restrictions and social distancing measures, producing a cart per person is difficult for most TDs.

I'm not sure what the best fix is exactly. IMO, the best thing I can think of is for the player to have a box to check when registering, describe the situation, and the TD can file for individual waivers. Surely the PDGA/DGS can make that happen fairly easily, similar to an E- Waiver.

Ideally, before the event, they can stipulate whether a cart is able to be used on the property and have that known prior to reg opening as well. Whether its a local law or a terrain and safety issue, it would eliminate any argument from affected parties. If the course was on public land, the ADA applies, and if the city were to be sued, most likely the baskets would just come out, because there are a ton of courses on public land that are not ADA compliant and im pretty sure most of them dont have huge clubs to do all the retro active work to get them compliant, so the end result is they might go away.

I understand that is not the issue at the moment, and I dont think this person is going to start suing local gov'ts, but what happens when someone else goes thru this same thing and does take it that far?

Or... The pdga can just re word some stuff

 

[jakebake91]

I don't think I've played a single course where it would be safe and/or practical to drive a golf cart around the entire course. Stretches of several of them, sure, but not the whole course.

 

[_MTL_]

The rule does not need updating and it's not up to the TD. A TD can't alter rules.

Mr. Anderson should be contacting the PDGA medical and or veterans ' committee regarding how a waiver can be approved due his injuries.

 

[ru4por]

I am going to trust the PDGA. There are a lot of ancillary rules, regs and directives that need to be worked out. What is a disability, what sort of documentation is needed, what level or types of disabilities would qualify for a cart, what kinds of carts qualify, local park and municipality rules impact, should the rules apply to all tiers, is there additional legal liability and how might that impact insurance needs of an event.........just a few things off the top of my head. If the PDGA is aware of the situation and are discussing it, I will wait and see what comes out of it. I am not much of a joiner, nor wish to put my interwebz info into even more databases.

Sorry, I did not see MTL's response.

 

[ballgolfconvert]

They even allow cart use on the PGA Tour for handicapped players (Casey Martin Rule). No one ever uses it, because it ain't so easy to be handicapped and good enough to play on the tour, but this also extends to local USGA events as well, so it does get used.

Not surprising that the PDGA, who wants to be Not Ball Golf, lags so far behind ball golf when it comes to no-brainer policies.

 

[wolfmandragon]

I agree with MTL..... I did not think that would ever happen...

 

[Pwingles]

I don't think I've played a single course where it would be safe and/or practical to drive a golf cart around the entire course. Stretches of several of them, sure, but not the whole course.

There are many "park" courses in my area, mostly flat and non wooded. There are def courses where this is not doable.

 

[jakebake91]

There are many "park" courses in my area, mostly flat and non wooded. There are def courses where this is not doable.

Sounds like a great place to have a tourney....

 

[ToddL]

The no cart rule has been around since at least 2010.

I believe the Competition Manual as a document was first approved and printed in 2006. I have a copy from 2008 with the no cart rule included almost word-for-word the same as the current rule. Not saying the rule is right or wrong or shouldn't be modified...

 

[DavidSauls]

I am going to trust the PDGA. There are a lot of ancillary rules, regs and directives that need to be worked out. What is a disability, what sort of documentation is needed, what level or types of disabilities would qualify for a cart, what kinds of carts qualify, local park and municipality rules impact, should the rules apply to all tiers, is there additional legal liability and how might that impact insurance needs of an event.........just a few things off the top of my head. If the PDGA is aware of the situation and are discussing it, I will wait and see what comes out of it. I am not much of a joiner, nor wish to put my interwebz info into even more databases.

Sorry, I did not see MTL's response.

This, and more.

I'm not eager to be the TD ruling on who can be granted a cart exemption. Because you know there'll be someone with lesser health matters, petitioning to ride while others walk.

 

[_MTL_]

They even allow cart use on the PGA Tour for handicapped players (Casey Martin Rule). No one ever uses it, because it ain't so easy to be handicapped and good enough to play on the tour, but this also extends to local USGA events as well, so it does get used.

Not surprising that the PDGA, who wants to be Not Ball Golf, lags so far behind ball golf when it comes to no-brainer policies.

Casey Martin had to submit for a medical waiver, like I suggested.

He didn't have his friend post on a discussion board about a rule change to get that processed.

 

[Rastnav]

They even allow cart use on the PGA Tour for handicapped players (Casey Martin Rule). No one ever uses it, because it ain't so easy to be handicapped and good enough to play on the tour, but this also extends to local USGA events as well, so it does get used.

Not surprising that the PDGA, who wants to be Not Ball Golf, lags so far behind ball golf when it comes to no-brainer policies.

I think people don't remember how the Casey Martin rule came into being. Short answer, a long embarrassing lawsuit and the PGA had to be forced into an accommodation for Martin. The ruling was that stamina played no part in success in golf, which ... is just wrong, even if it put the right rule in place.

I think disabled disc golfers should be allowed exemptions for accommodations, and if that isn't the case currently, that should change. But let's not accuse ball golf of being forward thinking.

 

[Rastnav]

As an aside, I think the newest course in my area is somehow going to have handicapped accessible tee pads. Really cool if I understood the video correctly.

 

[Pwingles]

Casey Martin had to submit for a medical waiver, like I suggested.

He didn't have his friend post on a discussion board about a rule change to get that processed.

Couple things;

I didnt create the petition.

Andre did not have me post anything, I did it on my own thinking some of the community would want to support a change that can be discriminitory in some cases, and is antiquated.

If you don't want to sign it, then don't. But seeing a potential change that could be made, and not wanting to do it because it wouldnt be easy or convenient is silly.

Im also not sure why you seem to be taking shots at me personally, like im some kind of A hole for wanting my handicapped friend to be able to participate in a game we both like.

Again, i dont have the answers, hopefully the PDGA will come to some sort of compromise. Its a nuanced issue in my opinion with lots of logistical things to consider, so its obv not going to be simple.

 

[Hampstead]

Donkeys. Players should be given a donkey to ride for the round. All terrain would be accessible.

 

[Dingus]

Casey Martin had to submit for a medical waiver, like I suggested.

He didn't have his friend post on a discussion board about a rule change to get that processed.

Can you point us in the direction of the PDGA medical waiver policy? Wouldn't that clear this up a lot faster than acting snarky?

 

[davetherocketguy]

The Casey Martin comparison to this doesn't work very well most of the time. Golf courses are specifically designed and laid out with golf carts in mind. Disc golf courses are not. Not exactly a "no brainer" comparison for at least half of the dg courses I've played. The suggestion of "leaving it up to the TD" sounds like something that would come from someone who has never been a TD before. I agree with DavidSauls. I can hear it now, "Come on mmaaaaaaannnn I neeeeeed this cart. I pulled my hammy last week I'm disabled."