Tailspin? Really?
The media has been messed up, no question. But the events themselves have been nothing but successes. Let's not get too hyperbolic here.
-
Discover new ways to elevate your game with the updated DGCourseReview app!
It's entirely free and enhanced with features shaped by user feedback to ensure your best experience on the course. (App Store or Google Play)
PDGATOUR - Would you support this?
- Thread starter DiscFifty
- Start date
Tailspin? Really?
The media has been messed up, no question. But the events themselves have been nothing but successes. Let's not get too hyperbolic here.
Finny
Birdie Member
You're right.
Tiresome as it may be, I'll look to golf (with a capital 'G') for an effective way to handle this situation. The PGA administers their pro tour and was created to address the specific needs/desires of the professional golfer in the US. The USGA and the Royal & Ancient, on the other hand, shepherd the sport at a foundational level, write the rules and the like...it's not like the organizations do not work together, rather they recognize that on some basic level the desires/aims of these different types of players/organizers are fundamentally opposed.
The more experience one has the easier it is to see this is true.
The more experience one has the easier it is to see this is true.
There's a world of difference between professional golfers, and professional disc golfers.
For clarity's sake....
The PGA does not administer the pro tour. The PGA (technically the PGA of America) is an organization of golf professionals (club pros, superintendents, instructors, etc). They operate five events...PGA Championship, PGA Senior Championship, PGA Women's Championship, PGA Professional Championship, Ryder Cup.
PGA Tour operates the pro tour. A separate entity from the PGA, though three PGA of America executives sit on the 10-person policy board of the PGA Tour, it exists solely for the growth and organization of competitive professional golf.
The two different organizations exist because of a financial dispute over revenues from TV coverage of events. The players wanted more of that money to go to their purses while the PGA preferred the money go into further promotion and development of the sport in general. So the players broke off to do their own thing.
We don't have that windfall of TV money coming into the sport yet. All we have is membership dues to fund PDGA ventures, be they grassroots growth of the sport or the pro tour. The split that exists on where those funds go seems like a good balance. No reason to tip the scales.
The PGA does not administer the pro tour. The PGA (technically the PGA of America) is an organization of golf professionals (club pros, superintendents, instructors, etc). They operate five events...PGA Championship, PGA Senior Championship, PGA Women's Championship, PGA Professional Championship, Ryder Cup.
PGA Tour operates the pro tour. A separate entity from the PGA, though three PGA of America executives sit on the 10-person policy board of the PGA Tour, it exists solely for the growth and organization of competitive professional golf.
The two different organizations exist because of a financial dispute over revenues from TV coverage of events. The players wanted more of that money to go to their purses while the PGA preferred the money go into further promotion and development of the sport in general. So the players broke off to do their own thing.
We don't have that windfall of TV money coming into the sport yet. All we have is membership dues to fund PDGA ventures, be they grassroots growth of the sport or the pro tour. The split that exists on where those funds go seems like a good balance. No reason to tip the scales.
I'm not surprised. Though neither is a representative sample. You can find internet threads full of people who love watching the pros....and other threads full of people who don't. Neither is much proof of anything.
There's a gap between people who like playing disc golf, and those who like playing and also watching disc golf. (There are very few who like watching, but not playing). In my disc golf world outside of these forums---at tournaments and visitors to our course and a bunch of Facebook groups---I have no idea who many of those people also watch videos, or closely follow the pros. I do know that they never seem to talk about it---around me, at least.
Maybe, instead of a $10 surcharge to memberships, they should put all video behind a $10 pay wall. We'd find out just how many people think it's worth it.
Cgkdisc
.:Hall of Fame Member:.
All of these ideas for orchestrating a tour in terms of who gets or should get what cut of the income among the TDs, promoters, tour directors, sponsors, volunteers and players are things that you do once you are closer having a big enough pie to spread income around. Our pro sport maybe has a single cherry (versus money in other sports) let alone a whole pie and it's taking a lot of excess resources just to produce that cherry every year. Dodge is hanging onto the pit left over each year in hopes his gardening effort eventually gets a tree underway.
Until our stakeholders figure out how to produce a pie, and I'm not sure they know what it will take to do that or are resistant to try new ways to eventually produce a tart, they'll continue expending resources to maybe get two cherries in a few years.
Our established manufacturers have already earned and continue to earn many pies. They don't even have to do much baking because the wise ones have figured out how to generate loads of nice pie filling from recreational and amateur players that helps puff and fluff up the sometimes gnarly looking crust on the outside we sometimes get to see in a various online media.
(Enough analogies for you?
)
Until our stakeholders figure out how to produce a pie, and I'm not sure they know what it will take to do that or are resistant to try new ways to eventually produce a tart, they'll continue expending resources to maybe get two cherries in a few years.
Our established manufacturers have already earned and continue to earn many pies. They don't even have to do much baking because the wise ones have figured out how to generate loads of nice pie filling from recreational and amateur players that helps puff and fluff up the sometimes gnarly looking crust on the outside we sometimes get to see in a various online media.
(Enough analogies for you?
)
brutalbrutus
* Ace Member *
Two things that I think haven't been mentioned in this thread yet, one for each side of the discussion...
1. DeLa and Milo don't have signal, so they cant be broadcast live. Not sure about Iron Hill.
2. Some of those AMs people keep talking about aspire to be Pros, so I wouldn't speak for them all when saying the AMs wont go for this...
1. DeLa and Milo don't have signal, so they cant be broadcast live. Not sure about Iron Hill.
2. Some of those AMs people keep talking about aspire to be Pros, so I wouldn't speak for them all when saying the AMs wont go for this...
It's just that not enough of them will.
Certainly some would. Not just the ones who aspire to be pros.....the ones who love to watch the pros will as well.
It should be said that it's not that I don't think the PDGA should support the pro tour. They already do, to a considerable degree. Which is proper; they should be supporting disc golf and disc golf growth at all levels, including the top one.
The question is whether they should put a lot of money into media, and particularly whether they should charge more to everyone to do it.
The question is whether they should put a lot of money into media, and particularly whether they should charge more to everyone to do it.
Finny
Birdie Member
Obviously I love analogies, and I agree with this one. That's why I like the single entity idea.
Finny
Birdie Member
I think it's clear that I shouldn't have been surprised. I was naive. I kinda like the "pay to watch" idea. Make it $5 to watch all video from one tournament and let's see where we're at. I'd pay.
I've said that quite a few times around here, but in reality that's just trying to milk the existing 80-100k disc golfers active in the disc golf social media world. The PDGA/PDGATOUR, etc, needs to market the pro side of the sport outside of typical disc golf circles, there are plenty of general/casual sports channels/influencers where you could advertise the sport at.
brutalbrutus
* Ace Member *
Askren needs to become the DG influencer...
beereakfast
Eagle Member
- Joined
- Nov 7, 2009
- Messages
- 647
I suppose i've been spoiled by CCTV and Jomez, but i only started following in less than the last year.
If they asked for $5 per tournament, y'all have a nice day.......
If it was $12 per year, i'm listening.
It isn't about being a cheap ass. I don't have cable tv or even internet beyond my phone at home. And i'm not a broke kid. Just a choice i made.
It seems to me that i'm actually in the target market for this, as i do like to see everything that is put out. That said, i will not watch live coverage ever. I do appreciate good productions, and am willing to pay, just not that much. I pay nothing to watch the warriors basketball, or the raiders football, or my giants. Disc golf is not anywhere close to breaking into that level. Trying to get there on the backs of devout fans is a bad idea. Gotta let it grow before you can reap. Nice that some can make a living already, but this really is the current limit. Nice to dream tho!
If they asked for $5 per tournament, y'all have a nice day.......
If it was $12 per year, i'm listening.
It isn't about being a cheap ass. I don't have cable tv or even internet beyond my phone at home. And i'm not a broke kid. Just a choice i made.
It seems to me that i'm actually in the target market for this, as i do like to see everything that is put out. That said, i will not watch live coverage ever. I do appreciate good productions, and am willing to pay, just not that much. I pay nothing to watch the warriors basketball, or the raiders football, or my giants. Disc golf is not anywhere close to breaking into that level. Trying to get there on the backs of devout fans is a bad idea. Gotta let it grow before you can reap. Nice that some can make a living already, but this really is the current limit. Nice to dream tho!
Casey 1988
Shun the frumious Bandersnatch!
Yeah in the NT events back when it had a Season Ending Championship in the 2000's it seemed to be a few guys who were winning that, Climo and a few other mostly Innova players. The Female side had a few Discraft and Innova players winning the NT year after year in the 2000's. Now I see more events that are NT or at least NT caliber A tier events that are hard to tell A tier from NT but Pro Tour seems to be a step above the NT And the Season end tour event is done a bit different in that you have to qualify for the Pro Tour not just have played at least one event like the NT Season Ending Championships. NTl used the same style for the Pro Tour event but the NT had no points to worry about to get into the event back when the NT had a Season Ending Event. NT got ban from the same place the Pro Tour now goes to play for the season ending championship as some of the players and spectators abused the carts the club had for the course. Not sure if the NT stopped doing the NT Season ending Championships because of the ban or due to the Pro Tour taking off?
Yes the NT had a season ending Championship that everybody got to play in if they did at least one NT event, the players got paired up on first day due to ranking but that was point less as the players had score to go to the next round, the points were not factored in.
What in the world are you babbling about?
No, the NT has never had a season ending championship. It has always had a points system for which the top points winners are awarded bonuses, but that's all the points did (same as they do now).
Casey is my favorite poster on this forum. It's not even close.
Casey 1988
Shun the frumious Bandersnatch!
I agree, I see Disc Golf on the other Sports Channels like say NBC Sports or Fox One Sports even on other channels. I see other sports like the Road Circuit Raciing with the single gear fixed track cycle with only safety feature added to the bikes is hand brakes on NBC Sports, I see other Track cycling, Super Tour Cycling events and Track and Field events On NBC Sports as well as some of the lesser motor racing that is sponsored by Lucas Oil. I could see Disc Golf Fitting in with this, each event's sponsor on the Pro Tour/NT being the one to bring the events to the TV the way Lucas Oil does or the individual sponsors of the Super Tour Cycling events.
In my opinion, disc golf doesn't have a prayer of catching on as a spectator sport beyond the world of disc golfers. It's just not that interesting to watch.
The costs, for air time and production, would be prohibitive---some sponsors would have to put up hundreds of thousands of dollars, in anticipation of a big viewership to return their investment in additional sales.
I know that some disc golfers love to watch disc golf, and think everyone else would to. Or they look at some of the things that get on TV and think, "Why not us?" But there must be a hundred other sports like disc golf whose players think the same things---sports that are easier to video, involve more action, and don't take nearly as long to complete a match.
I'll be happy to be proven wrong---I think it would be neat to see on TV, with production values like golf has---but I don't see it happening.
The costs, for air time and production, would be prohibitive---some sponsors would have to put up hundreds of thousands of dollars, in anticipation of a big viewership to return their investment in additional sales.
I know that some disc golfers love to watch disc golf, and think everyone else would to. Or they look at some of the things that get on TV and think, "Why not us?" But there must be a hundred other sports like disc golf whose players think the same things---sports that are easier to video, involve more action, and don't take nearly as long to complete a match.
I'll be happy to be proven wrong---I think it would be neat to see on TV, with production values like golf has---but I don't see it happening.
Similar threads
