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Phenix Flight Numbers Help!
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Sadjo
* Ace Member *
That Disc was discontinued before Innova started giving discs numbers. That's a pre flight chart disc.
LeBeau1470
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Phenix Flight Numbers
I was just wondering about what the flight numbers would have been for the Innova Phenix, and I found a chat on this page during a search.
So I made a guess at what they would have been, and asked Dave Dunipace what he would have designated for the flight numbers.
I said 7/4/0/4.
He said 7/5/0/3.
At the time, it seemed almost impossibly overstable.
I was just wondering about what the flight numbers would have been for the Innova Phenix, and I found a chat on this page during a search.
So I made a guess at what they would have been, and asked Dave Dunipace what he would have designated for the flight numbers.
I said 7/4/0/4.
He said 7/5/0/3.
At the time, it seemed almost impossibly overstable.
LeBeau1470
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They weren't made with Flight Numbers. I just asked the creator of the discs, and he said they would have been 7/5/0/3.
I have one in pristine condition. I'd like to bag all my circle stamps for a round once. They're really the only thing I collect.
LeBeau1470
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I doubt anyone throws a Phenix any more. They can't exist too much in the wild at all, I'd think.
Did Rick LeBeau just randomly post on DGCR? The Internet is such a silly place.
Rando cool factor trivia about the Phenix: When the original Aero mold wore out they retooled it to make the Phenix, so the Phenix had the really old tooling that had been on the Aero. I think it said "CHAMPION DISCS, INC." instead of Innova-Champion like the tooling on the rest of the discs.
Rando cool factor trivia about the Phenix: When the original Aero mold wore out they retooled it to make the Phenix, so the Phenix had the really old tooling that had been on the Aero. I think it said "CHAMPION DISCS, INC." instead of Innova-Champion like the tooling on the rest of the discs.
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I don't remember how long ago, but I think I may have asked about flight numbers for the Shadow, Tracer and Eclipse...I might have asked for the Phenix as well. Researching....
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Researched some and I can see my posts going back about 18 months...
I have no idea what any flight numbers mean if the Phenix was speed 7.
I would have put the Phenix a speed 5. The Eclipse I could go speed 6 except...Innova calls the Stingray a speed 4 now? If the Stingray is speed 4 the Eclipse would be speed 5, right? No way no how a Phenix was faster than an Eclipse, right?
Or I'm wrong. Probably I'm wrong.
Anyway, I think if a Stingray is a 4/5/-3/1 and Eclipse would be a 5/5/-2/2, right? They still call a Gazelle a speed 6 and it was faster than an Eclipse. So a speed 5 for an Eclipse seems resonable.
No way a Phenix was faster than a Gazelle. No way no how. I'm calling the Phenix a speed 4 or 5. TeeBirds are speed 7; I can't think of anything I could smoke that would convince me the Phenix was as fast as a TeeBird.
I'm not Dave Dunipace, though.
Shadow and Tracer? Tracer I'd guess 5/4/-1/1. Shadow I don't remember at all, and I think the only one I ever had I got in a trade so I never threw one new. No guess.
All of these guesses are null and void if the Phenix was speed 7. :|
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I have no idea what any flight numbers mean if the Phenix was speed 7.
I would have put the Phenix a speed 5. The Eclipse I could go speed 6 except...Innova calls the Stingray a speed 4 now? If the Stingray is speed 4 the Eclipse would be speed 5, right? No way no how a Phenix was faster than an Eclipse, right?
Or I'm wrong. Probably I'm wrong.
Anyway, I think if a Stingray is a 4/5/-3/1 and Eclipse would be a 5/5/-2/2, right? They still call a Gazelle a speed 6 and it was faster than an Eclipse. So a speed 5 for an Eclipse seems resonable.
No way a Phenix was faster than a Gazelle. No way no how. I'm calling the Phenix a speed 4 or 5. TeeBirds are speed 7; I can't think of anything I could smoke that would convince me the Phenix was as fast as a TeeBird.
I'm not Dave Dunipace, though.
Shadow and Tracer? Tracer I'd guess 5/4/-1/1. Shadow I don't remember at all, and I think the only one I ever had I got in a trade so I never threw one new. No guess.
All of these guesses are null and void if the Phenix was speed 7. :|
Yeah
Someone probably smarter then me looked at the disc specs. on the PDGA site (just guessing) and knows the computations involved. I thought the numbers were based off of rim width and height, the Phenix was a wide and tall rim unlike anything I can think of now days. So color me confused as well...
The Shadow was basically a domey Tracer if my memory serves me...
but there was a Step Shadow released that was more over-stable then the normal Shadow. The Step Shadow had a rim shape similar to X-Clone.
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Wow.....yous guys have got to be old.
It seems all relative. The Eclipse was a sharp edged, high speed driver, in its day. Never figured out how to throw it that hard.
It seems all relative. The Eclipse was a sharp edged, high speed driver, in its day. Never figured out how to throw it that hard.
Wow.....yous guys have got to be old.
It seems all relative. The Eclipse was a sharp edged, high speed driver, in its day. Never figured out how to throw it that hard.
My longest throw in a distance comp was with an Eclipse, 118m. I still can't figure out how I never threw a Valk farther than that.
As far as I recall the Shadow had more dome and was flipper than a Tracer, and there was a Shadow Xtra that was supposed to be more stable than the the Shadow. I'm pretty sure all variations of the Shadow were OOP by '95 when I started selling discs, because it was off the order form by then. Tracers and Marauders were still around, but the Shadow was already gone.
Marauders I think were a tick more stable than a Tracer with a similar tick less glide; 5/3/0/1; maybe 5/4/0/1.
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Yeah, I agree with those earlier who said the Phenix couldn't be speed 7. Viper, Whippet, and Gazelle are now called speed 6. I never had a Phenix but had those other three back in the day.
Cyclones were state of the art when my interest in the sport ramped up big time in 1996. That's when I moved to an area with a good club (the Capital City Renegades in Lansing, MI). According to the Marshall Street chart I'm looking at, that's a 7. I saw a local pro pin a 400' wooded tunnel hole (Grand Woods #3) with a black one that year and I'll never forget it. Looked like space age stuff to me!
Cyclones were state of the art when my interest in the sport ramped up big time in 1996. That's when I moved to an area with a good club (the Capital City Renegades in Lansing, MI). According to the Marshall Street chart I'm looking at, that's a 7. I saw a local pro pin a 400' wooded tunnel hole (Grand Woods #3) with a black one that year and I'll never forget it. Looked like space age stuff to me!
This is where all this stuff gets messed up.
Gazelles and Cheetahs are speed 6 on the Innova chart. Cyclones are slightly slower than a Gazelle or Cheetah but faster than a Viper. Vipers are also listed as speed 6. If a Cheetah AND a Viper are speed 6, the Cheetah is a fast speed 6 and the Viper is a slow speed 6. The Cyclone would sit right in between as the dictionary definition of speed 6.
TeeBirds/Eagles/XL's were all faster and are/were speed 7.
But the Cyclone and XL never really had flight numbers so somebody can go "Oh, the XL was speed 8." There really isn't a definition; basically all you can do is compare discs to how Innova has their discs rated. With no real definition of what speed 8 is VS what speed 7 is, which one the XL was becomes a matter of opinion.
PLUS...Stingray a speed 4 but Viper a speed 6? Really? I can live with the Viper as a speed 5 but I really don't see speed 6 based on a Cheetah being speed 6. If they both are speed 6, speed 6 is a really big range.
Why the Stingray is considered so slow seems more a function of lumping it in with the rest of the 21.7cm diameter discs like the Roc and Cobra that are considered "midrange" discs. Speed 5 seems reserved for the small diameter Spider/Cro midranges. That makes the Viper (a holdover 21.7cm diameter disc with a driver wing) not fit in speed 5, so it's speed 6, which lumps it in with drivers instead of midranges even though it's slower than all the speed 6 discs.
Which is the reality of flight numbers; they are a marketing tool. It's not science. You can call the Viper a speed 6 and a Stingray speed 4 so that the marketing of the discs makes sense because there really isn't a definition of what speed is. Anyone who is really hung up on the numbers and wants proof that they are fubar just needs to take a Stingray and a Viper out and throw them; I'm very confident the reality that these numbers are made up will strike you as you do that.
biscoe
* Ace Member *
Fortunately for the manufacturers the target market for flight numbers in general could not care less about anything made last century.
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For old school discs use the old school scale. Phenix=very overstable. Jaydub said that when these were the hot new discs the pros would get them before a tournament and smash them into the ground a bunch of times before they threw them. The one I had was a wall hanger, until I sold it on ebay. I don't collect Innova, only Discraft (and early Whamo)
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