Please critique, I average around 250 feet max :(

[Asian Style]

This is a little embarrassing because I can't even do 300 feet which most people seem to be stuck at. I wish I knew a local who could teach me but I don't know anyone around my area. (Portland) I started playing seriously at the end of last summer.

In this video, I show three throws. On the third throw you can see where I am aiming at, the tiny dot is a blue soccer ball that is about 250ish feet out according to google maps. Apologies for the crappy video, my best camera is my phone.

I am throwing a beat 169g KC Pro Roc in all the throws. I am throwing flat and with some altitude to get me to my target. I understand this can introduce some nose up issues, I can throw my Roc on a level frozen rope but I only have enough power to get it to go maybe 200 feet without breaking through the 10 foot ceiling.

I can throw my putters, mids, and drivers all about the same max distance. If my line is 225 feet or less, I feel confident hitting it. Hyzer, Anhyzer, Straight, Tunnel shot. My accuracy is probably over 80% in that range. The only shot I have a hard time with at the moment is a tunnel shot with a dogleg to the right. I'm RHBH and I don't have a good flick shot or roller. I don't think I have a good understable disc for this either which makes it hard.

I've watched just about every technique video in the forums. I constantly work on the beato right pec drill, closed shoulder drill, and the hogan power drill. I also do several exercises to increase the rotation flexibility of my hips and lower back.

I would like to participate in tournaments this year, it will be my first time, so I thought maybe the rec division, but right now I think I would be destroyed. There are some holes where you have to shoot farther than 250 feet to avoid OB (it's over water). I don't have much time to improve before registration starts.

If you can help me in person, I'd be down to play some time. I live in the Vancouver, WA and Portland, OR area.

Any help or critique would be appreciated. Thanks!

 

[Exovel]

I average about 320, so I'm not exactly the most best giver of advice in the world, but my first thought is a high nose angle. In the clip taken from behind, you can see the disc jump upwards out of your hand (~3:09). I struggled with this (and still do occasionally), but have found it helpful to hold the disc lower in my stance before I start my x-step and try to push my weight forward before release which lowers my shoulders (and the disc). This will keep the disc lower and allow the prevent it from stalling out and fading too early.

 

[timj5304]

Despite what all people on here say, not everyone can throw putters or mids a country mile. I dont get my mids much farther than you on flat ground but I would recommend getting a star sidewinder in a light weight like 160-165. Understable and go a long ways with minimal effort, I throw these when I play like 5 rounds in a day and am tired at the end. Your form is not terrible, I also think it might be just one of those things where you lack the natural ability that some others have, some guys can just throw 450 ft the first week they play and dont know why. The roc will only get you so far, even the top pros only use mids to 400ish ft.

PS one of my friends is Asian and built like you are, he was throwing a flx buzzz well but couldnt find a driver, eventually the two that worked for him were a pro valkyrie because they beatup fast and a light star sidewinder. He still can max at 300 ft but is pretty accurate, putting and upshots are important too!

 

[tomdizzlefizzle]

I'm pretty sure there's a magic sprinkly distance dust that pros sprinkle on there arms while thinking happy thoughts to throw far. Where to find it I dont know but good luck

 

[Asian Style]

I average about 320, so I'm not exactly the most best giver of advice in the world, but my first thought is a high nose angle. In the clip taken from behind, you can see the disc jump upwards out of your hand (~3:09). I struggled with this (and still do occasionally), but have found it helpful to hold the disc lower in my stance before I start my x-step and try to push my weight forward before release which lowers my shoulders (and the disc). This will keep the disc lower and allow the prevent it from stalling out and fading too early.

Thanks for the feedback. I noticed my discs going up as well, but I will say, the plane I was throwing the disc on was purposely a little low to high in order to shoot it up. The reason is because that's what I "felt" I needed to get my disc to land where I wanted it to. I needed the altitude to give it time to ride before it faded out. So I was not disappointed with the fade. If I were throwing it completely level on purpose, you would see a frozen rope shot that doesn't fade before it hits the ground. The problem is that I just can't get enough velocity on it to keep it gliding forever. It only goes maybe 150 ft max before it slowly drops out of the air. It doesn't fade, it just settles because there's not enough velocity on it to lift the disc up anymore. A power problem.

I think I understand what you are saying about the lowering of the disc. You're saying where I am holding up the disc at my chest during my x-step, to hold it lower at my stomach or even waist in order to kind of tilt my top weight forward? I can experiment with that, though I have a feeling it might play havoc with my accuracy and reach back for minimal gain, but I am up for trying it to see if it makes a difference. Thanks!

 

[Asian Style]

Despite what all people on here say, not everyone can throw putters or mids a country mile. I dont get my mids much farther than you on flat ground but I would recommend getting a star sidewinder in a light weight like 160-165. Understable and go a long ways with minimal effort, I throw these when I play like 5 rounds in a day and am tired at the end. Your form is not terrible, I also think it might be just one of those things where you lack the natural ability that some others have, some guys can just throw 450 ft the first week they play and dont know why. The roc will only get you so far, even the top pros only use mids to 400ish ft.

PS one of my friends is Asian and built like you are, he was throwing a flx buzzz well but couldnt find a driver, eventually the two that worked for him were a pro valkyrie because they beatup fast and a light star sidewinder. He still can max at 300 ft but is pretty accurate, putting and upshots are important too!

Thanks for the feedback, I would be incredibly sad if despite good technique, I do not have the natural ability to get a driver up to speed. I LOVE throwing a buzzz, if I hadn't lost mine, I would have used that instead of my beat roc to video critique, it went a little farther than my roc I think.

I found a super beat pro valkyrie the other day, the owner has a disconnected number. I might try playing around with it more. I threw it a couple times today in the field just because I've never thrown one. It was understable but not uncontrollable. Still, even with my cleanest form and several attempts, I couldn't push it much further than my mids or putters throwing it on a straight line. :/

I may have to learn to really hyzer flip something or distance anhyzer something to get to 300'. But then my control will suffer with those kind of shots. :/

My putting and approach game have saved me so many strokes. I probably put more time into putting practice than anything else. It's the only way I can barely keep up right now until I figure out this distance/power issue.

 

[Asian Style]

I'm pretty sure there's a magic sprinkly distance dust that pros sprinkle on there arms while thinking happy thoughts to throw far. Where to find it I dont know but good luck

Hah, I really hope not. If it's technique that I can work on, I will work on it. But if it's natural ability and I just don't have it, well...my goal of competing at the open level just got a whole infinitely harder. I don't think anyone at that level or even advanced wins with just 250 feet of driving power.

 

[Asian Style]

On a side note. A friend lent me his 132g Blizzard Boss that is beat up. Using the same form you see in the video, I could not throw that thing worth crap. How in the world do you throw that plastic?! I throw it out on a nice straight level line and about 40 feet out it turned down, not over, but literally down into the ground and became a tunnel shot roller. After several tries and burning it, I finally threw it at 60% power, which is very little power, really high up in the air on an extreme hyzer line and got it to not turn over and die finally. Went about 250ish for me still. Even if that stupid thing can get me to 300 feet, I feel like there's no freaking way I can control it unless I throw it on an extreme hyzer every time with no wind. Or maybe it's telling me my form is really bad. I don't know.

 

[bergdawg]

You're throwing with the nose up. You're not giving the disc a chance to fly. Smooth is far, don't try to kill it.

 

[sidewinder22]

Side view its easy to see you are leaning away from the target at reachback and out of balance. Lean toward the target and over the disc dropping your right shoulder into the swing plane. You are too heavy on the rear heel, don't let the rear heel touch the ground and the front foot should glide forward and the front hip should not rise up during the stride to plant(balance issues). Also your elbow doesn't get very far forward of your front shoulder before it extends which is because of...
Rear view its easy to see you are reaching too far back around with the arm, causing rounding and the arm crashing against the chest, so the elbow never gets forward of the shoulder and you keeping a straighter pull line. Your arm should be wider from the chest in the reachback, so you either need to turn your hips/shoulders further or reach back more toward the left side of the tee pad, so your body doesn't get in the way of the pull line.

 

[Asian Style]

Side view its easy to see you are leaning away from the target at reachback and out of balance. Lean toward the target and over the disc dropping your right shoulder into the swing plane. You are too heavy on the rear heel, don't let the rear heel touch the ground and the front foot should glide forward and the front hip should not rise up during the stride to plant(balance issues). Also your elbow doesn't get very far forward of your front shoulder before it extends which is because of...
Rear view its easy to see you are reaching too far back around with the arm, causing rounding and the arm crashing against the chest, so the elbow never gets forward of the shoulder and you keeping a straighter pull line. Your arm should be wider from the chest in the reachback, so you either need to turn your hips/shoulders further or reach back more toward the left side of the tee pad, so your body doesn't get in the way of the pull line.

When you say lean over the disc, are you saying lean forward toward the target or forward on a hyzer plane?

So I shouldn't let my rear heel touch the ground through my run up at all? keep on my toes?

Are you referring to right when I do my x-step my front hip raising? I think if I lean forward as you suggest, it and try and keep my hips level, that should help my front foot glide forward, correct?

I will work on my bringing my elbow forward. The camera angle may make it look worse but it doesn't feel like I'm crashing, I am aiming off toward the left not straight ahead in the video. I will try to reach back a little wider out though and see how it goes. I'm working on the hip flexibility and hogan power drill thing.

Thanks!

 

[sidewinder22]

Leaning over the disc for more hyzer plane at least. It's hard to explain in words, but you lean away from the target too far for any shot, it will feel like you are leaning toward the target with your back at the max reachback as your front foot plants. When you lean away you slow down and change your balance so instead of having a clean rotation you become more like an out-of-balance washing machine with the clothes all bunched up on one side, so it starts walking and slowing down, and using more energy.

The rear heel can touch the ground, but generally when someone is so heavy their heel I tell them to not let the heel touch the ground at all. If you watch a number of the top throwers their rear heel never comes close to hitting the ground like Wysocki. Some do touch the ground though, but they push from their instep and not the heel/balance behind the heel. You want to be quicker getting off the rear side and accelerating through the hit. You actually slow down.

You are correct of the right hip and balance.

If you are aiming out to the left, you definitely need to turn your hips and shoulders further away, but keep the arm where it is, not turning the arm further, but hips/shoulders turn further for a wider arm reach back. The upper arm collapses too close to the chest, crashing is just another term.

 

[Asian Style]

That all makes great sense! I got the feeling you described about leaning forward. If I imagine driving my shoulder forward as I x-step and just reaching my arm back as opposed to doing the opposite where I am reaching back and then driving my shoulders forward, I can tell a huge difference, thanks!

The throws I was doing here were flat. Normally I throw with a little bit of hyzer because it's more comfortable and if I OAT it a little, it's more forgiving. I was just trying to demonstrate my "flat" throw for form critique.

I didn't know I "hopped" when I did my x-step until I filmed myself. To keep the hips level I'm going to try and slow down and smooth out my x-step so that I'm stepping and "gliding" as opposed to "hopping". I think the hopping is what is pushing my right hip up and out of balance the most. I will experiment.

As for the chest crashing, I think I understand what you mean now. When I look at the video I notice right as I am coming across the chest, I look uncomfortable because I'm trying to pull the disc on the line, I am keeping it really close to my chest. I'm afraid of rounding so I'm trying to pull it in as tight as possible. But it sounds like by trying to avoid that, I am falling victim to it. I will experiment with trying to get more rotation on my hips and maybe move my pull line out a bit.

I will work on all the things you said and post another video, this time with the balance issues you suggested and throwing more on a slight hyzer and nose down. Thanks a bunch!

 

[sidewinder22]

I don't see much hop there. Your x-step is a bit long. Watch that first video of Espen or Steve Brinster, that's how a hop should be done. Something that helped my balance was hopping off the left foot and landing on the left foot and then planting the right foot, like Mike Moser and Paul Ulibarri. You have to keep some semblance of balance to do that or you will fail miserably. Practicing a standstill will also help you.

 

[Exovel]

I think I understand what you are saying about the lowering of the disc. You're saying where I am holding up the disc at my chest during my x-step, to hold it lower at my stomach or even waist in order to kind of tilt my top weight forward? I can experiment with that, though I have a feeling it might play havoc with my accuracy and reach back for minimal gain, but I am up for trying it to see if it makes a difference. Thanks!

Exactly. I've found that if I hold the disc higher in my stance, it's more difficult for me to get my weight over the disc. By holding it lower, my natural motion is more forward and I can shift my weight more effectively.

Also, changing anything in what's become a routine form will wreck your game for a round. It's just a consistency thing... eventually muscle memory will remember the new way over the old way.

 

[jspaulding91]

The only thing I saw is on your run up, you are pausing too much. Like on the first drive around the 0:07 mark when you land onto your left foot and then plant your right foot. It's a subtle delay but I think that's the main reason you aren't getting distance. That tiny little delay kills the momentum you have built up in your power-hop (which looks very smooth :thmbup: ). Try to smooth out your hip twist and arm delivery to spring the disc forward as soon as you have you plant foot planted.

Another thing, It's hard to throw a Roc 300ft so don't be discouraged reaching 250ft. As for drivers, I'd personally recommend starting out with a Archon or Katana because these are easy on the arm to get to go far.

Your follow through seemed very well so that's definitely not the culprit here. As to the nose up, I didn't notice it but then again I didn't watch the whole video just yet. Had to type this out while it was fresh on my mind.

Anyways, hope this helped! Good Luck! :hfive: