Please explain late turn to me

[disco40]

Lately, I've been running into situations where I don't have room to put something on anhyzer the whole way, but I still need to turn the disc over later and finish right.

So far my only way to achieve this somewhat consistently is to throw a very low shot with a BuzzzSS, with just the slightest bit of anny, that finishes slightly right at just beyond 200'.

Not interested in being told to throw forehand just yet, please.

What am I looking for in a disc and a throw to achieve say 250' (already within my midrange distance) that can travel through a tight fairway and turn late/finish right, without being a short baby worm burner? Do I need to beat some DX and flip it? Do I just need to learn more subtle control of anhyzer angles that use every foot of fairway (I can hold a pronounced anny line somewhat reliably, but there's nothing subtle about it)? Do I need to do something to impart more spin without increasing the speed of the throw? Something else?

I don't really understand what to do. This is somewhat baffling to me. I get along okay throwing my mids, but anything I throw straight finishes left. Thanks!

 

[sidewinder22]

I throw a Comet on hyzer flip turnover.

 

[ray1970]

For whatever it's worth, the first mid that I could consistently get to fade to the right at the end of its flight was the Westside Tursas. No trickery or shenanigans needed. A straight, flat release with about 200-250 worth of power and it would just go straight and then fade gently to the right.

 

[drk_evns]

I use my beat up star Mako3 for this

 

[Pymm]

I think it's mostly based on the disc. I have a couple of discs, a beat-in X Comet and a Sting that will turn gently through the whole flight and then go more pronouncedly right at the end. Underworld is good for this too but has more of a tendency to stay straight or get nosey and bail out left at the end. Nose down helps, as does hard and flat but not too hard. I try to throw all turnovers flat or mostly flat and vary the speed of my pull and uprightness of my stance to get more turn. Maybe that's backwards and a good player would say to vary the angle of the disc as it leaves your hand but I find that much harder to do accurately. Practice helps a lot but finding the right disc also helps. Good luck!

 

[drk_evns]

Some of my best putters will turn perfectly right near the end, but this shot is more about getting a flippy disc in the right amount of hyzer.

I know you don't want to hear it but this is why the forehand is so much more consistent.

Determining exactly the amount of hyzer, to get just the right amount of turn, at just the right time in the fairway, is infinitely more difficult than whipping a stable driver on hyzer with a forehand.

Especially at ~200 feet.

I hate throwing forehands as much as you, but even I am trying hard to develop one I can use for 300 feet and under. It's just the only way to compete anymore.

 

[deyo7]

Hyzerflip to turnover much easier to execute on a tight fairway than any kind of anhyzer line. X Comet as an option....Maybe used neutral putter or mid if not working for you. I've only thrown one buzzz SS and it was fairly stable, more stable than the older more used buzzz I own.

 

[Monocacy]

Do I just need to learn more subtle control of anhyzer angles that use every foot of fairway (I can hold a pronounced anny line somewhat reliably, but there's nothing subtle about it)? Do I need to do something to impart more spin without increasing the speed of the throw? Something else?

With regard to the disc, you need something super-understable with very little fade. The kind of disc that everyone calls flippy garbage. I don't throw a super-flippy mid so I don't have a specific recommendation.

Essentially you are throwing the disc on hyzer, but the disc wants to turn throughout the flight. Think of a hyzer-flip to straight shot, but the disc is so flippy it keeps going right. The hyzer and the turn balance through most of the flight and the disc flies fairly straight. Late in flight the hyzer is all used up and the disc turns right.

With regard to technique, you need to throw a firm, nose-down hyzer with enough height to keep the disc from burning into the ground.

This is a super-touchy shot. Slight variations in angle, wind, speed, etc. will affect your results. When you are ready to learn FH you will see how much easier it is to flick a stable disc that finishes right.

 

[BogeyNoMore]

Worth reading a 2nd time:

With regard to the disc, you need something super-understable with very little fade. The kind of disc that everyone calls flippy garbage. I don't throw a super-flippy mid so I don't have a specific recommendation.

Essentially you are throwing the disc on hyzer, but the disc wants to turn throughout the flight. Think of a hyzer-flip to straight shot, but the disc is so flippy it keeps going right. The hyzer and the turn balance through most of the flight and the disc flies fairly straight. Late in flight the hyzer is all used up and the disc turns right.

With regard to technique, you need to throw a firm, nose-down hyzer with enough height to keep the disc from burning into the ground.

This is a super-touchy shot. Slight variations in angle, wind, speed, etc. will affect your results. When you are ready to learn FH you will see how much easier it is to flick a stable disc that finishes right.

I'll add that a disc/mold that you think typically turns over too hard or too early for you, can be a good candidate for the hyzerflip to turnover shot. A Stratus would be a good choice. I have a very beat, 164 JLS that does this for me quite nicely. Can't throw that disc straight to save my life... thing's a turnover machine.

 

[Meillo]

Am I right that the disc should have a little bit of fade for a flat release? Otherwise it could result in a throwler. Please correct me if necessary.

 

[BogeyNoMore]

It's really a matter of what the shot needs to do, playing around with different releases and dialing it in. Since face occurs at the end of flight, it really won't stop a disc from turning and burning.

Monacacy touched on a key point: putting enough height (and also hyzer) on the shot so that it doesn't turn into a throwler. That helps to get more if the full flight, to the point where the disc slows to where fade takes over.

How much end of flight fade you want depends on what you want the shot to finish. Sometimes you want it fight back at the end of flight (somewhat S shaped), which calls for fade.

Sometimes you want it to hold the turn to the ground, which calls for as little face as possible.

As Monacacy said: it's a touchy shot.. Pretty when it works, but many players will find FH flicks with something moderately OS with strong fade to be more consistent.

Also, hyzerflip to turn takes a decent amount of space to work. FH flick can hold a tighter line.

 

[kenjiac]

I hyzerflip a beat dx stingray for this shot. Smooth hyzer not a whole lot of power flips up and finishes right. More power more height and a little nose up and you can get it to go pretty far right.

 

[Shamis]

I hyzerflip my fuse, or a flippy fairway like a hatchet or fury.

 

[Ryan P.]

I'll reiterate what Monocacy said, but I'll add a few nuances.

1. Yes, switch to an understable disc. I throw stringrays on this line. Any disc close to the ones mentioned here will do. With your distance, I would go with a -2 to -4 turn disc. If you have plenty of disc money, I'd start with something really understable (a -4 turn), and work your way up from there if needed.
2. The disc must be thrown at the proper hyzer angle, proper nose angle, and proper height. Messing up any of these three will cause the shot to fail in various ways. Too little hyzer will lead to it turning too much. Nose up will lead to it not turning enough. Too little height will lead to it throlling. If you're confident that your nose angle is correct, I'd pick a hyzer angle, then throw the same shot at different heights. If none work, adjust the angle accordingly and repeat until you find something comfortable. If you don't understand this or have trouble with it, ask more questions.
3. Some disclaimers about this shot are that it won't go as far right as a FH after it hits the ground (since the spin will grab the ground more often than it will skip/slide), and that you can get slightly wilder tree kicks with this shot than a FH. I realize you don't want to get to learning FH yet, but that's not why I say this (although I encourage you to learn one at some point). I say this as an introduction to the last point
4. there are plenty of reasons to choose a hyzer flip that finishes right, such as a fairway with a kink halfway through that is straight on both sides of the kink, such as this (RHBH, ignore the period):
   
   trees / trees
   trees | trees
   
   The disc (thrown correctly) will fly straight(ish) as it is coming out of the hyzer, start flying right, and hold the line a little better at the end. You could do this with a FH, but it is more likely to fade out at the end of the flight, like this (RHFH, ignore the period):
   
   trees ( trees
   trees \ trees
   
   If you straighten the first half of each of these flights up to where they align, you'll notice that the second one finishes hard right, whereas the first one finishes softly to the right.
   

 

[Meillo]

Is it possible to throw late turning shots with a low ceiling? Most posts adviced to give it height to work. That's definitely easier. If you have the room then a late turn is not much different than any turning/right-travelling shot, only that the disc is more US and you start on hyzer to have it go straight at first, while flipping up to flat, in order to start the actual right travelling much later.

But if I face a tunnel shot (narrow and limited height) where I want to end up slightly right. How do you approach this?

Seems that's even more touchy. You probably need to take a faster disc for a lower line and get all the angles just right.

The success and error percentages would be to bad for me to go with this shot. I'd rather forehand a straight disc. But if you are on on certain level you probably care for landing angles and there backhand turnover might trump the forehand.

But back to my question: How about low ceilings?

 

[drk_evns]

Is it possible to throw late turning shots with a low ceiling? Most posts adviced to give it height to work. That's definitely easier. If you have the room then a late turn is not much different than any turning/right-travelling shot, only that the disc is more US and you start on hyzer to have it go straight at first, while flipping up to flat, in order to start the actual right travelling much later.



But if I face a tunnel shot (narrow and limited height) where I want to end up slightly right. How do you approach this?



Seems that's even more touchy. You probably need to take a faster disc for a lower line and get all the angles just right.



The success and error percentages would be to bad for me to go with this shot. I'd rather forehand a straight disc. But if you are on on certain level you probably care for landing angles and there backhand turnover might trump the forehand.



But back to my question: How about low ceilings?

You need height for most turnover shots.

Turnover CAN be better than a forehand depending on the landing area and fairway shape but 9/10 a forehand hyzer is better.

This coming from a guy who has never thrown a forehand in a tournament.

 

[HyzerUniBomber]

But back to my question: How about low ceilings?

Yes. Speed, nose angle and hyzer angles, stability of the disc - all come into factor.

It comes from really knowing your disc and angles. You can take a slightly US disc that would turn too soon, and hit the right side - and add hyzer. That alone might not get you to the flipping late. To get the late flip, you may have to tip the nose down enough to flip - but you're delaying the flip because the disc has to flip through the hyzer angle and roll over to the turning portion.

You can do this on any trajectory, high vs flat, but a higher glide disc may have a tendency to lift more than you want in a "low ceiling" situation.

I used to use an MVP Anode or Ion for this shot. Nose down, touch of hyzer and I could power it to get it to go dead straight and start turning after 200'.

 

[Davos805]

I am starting to learn to throw left handed spike hyzers. You will be surprised how quickly you can pick it up! I also do some left handed upshots from time to time. Far more consistent than my flick (which I am also working on). Its the same exact motion as your regular throw, only on the other side of my body. I think its actually helping my RHBH, I understand the shot sequence better now after learning it on the entire other side of my body.

Give it a try, you might be surprised.

 

[sidewinder22]

Is it possible to throw late turning shots with a low ceiling? Most posts adviced to give it height to work. That's definitely easier. If you have the room then a late turn is not much different than any turning/right-travelling shot, only that the disc is more US and you start on hyzer to have it go straight at first, while flipping up to flat, in order to start the actual right travelling much later.

But if I face a tunnel shot (narrow and limited height) where I want to end up slightly right. How do you approach this?

Seems that's even more touchy. You probably need to take a faster disc for a lower line and get all the angles just right.

The success and error percentages would be to bad for me to go with this shot. I'd rather forehand a straight disc. But if you are on on certain level you probably care for landing angles and there backhand turnover might trump the forehand.

But back to my question: How about low ceilings?

1st hole is a low ceiling straight tunnel with RR.
3rd hole I throw back to back low ceiling late turn shots with same RR.

 

[BogeyNoMore]

^ excellent examples of a hyzer release, flipping up to flat, and continuing to flip into a turn.