Poll - Hold Spots for Women?

[billnchristy]

Do 725 rated women really need to be travelling and playing NT's and Majors/A-tiers? Would they even bother doing it? Do you need to play World's to know you're the best sub-800 rated woman who bothered to travel across the country?

There's no shortage of disc golf events in which to participate in my area (which admittedly is pretty active in terms of DG). Seems like the best way to get ladies playing is with grass roots type stuff in your area; women's leagues and minis, then decide with those people which tournaments you'd like to play and pre-reg. I talk to my DG buds about which tournaments they're going to play.

I'm an almost 30 year old dude, not a TD, and I have no problem with holding spots in major events for ladies, but it seems like it may be a PITA for those in charge.

725 is 25 points from intermediate or 875 rated.

Do 875 rated guys play in A-tiers?

Yes.

 

[JeCroisQue]

Did you read?

Yes, and I said I have yet to hear a valid reason. It seems that women are more skiddish and unsure of signing up rather than having concrete and insurmountable disadvantages.

 

[billnchristy]

Interesting discussion. I see a few misconceptions. My wife has been playing tournaments with sense '07 so from what I have seen.


Regarding the women being stuck with the rec bottom card. It does happen but most TD will try to put advanced womens with the advanced masters first, if possible.


Regarding guys being upset that a woman is beating them. I've never seen it. Maybe it is because it is my wife doing it? She is currently 894 rated, has won men's rec once and finishes near the top in intermediate men consistently. She regularly takes the boys money in weekly mini tournaments. Any time someone has said anything it has been in a joking way. Maybe Paige Peirce set the tone so the guys are used to it by now?


It also seems like everyone is glossing over the fact that the question is in regards to big events, not your B tier and below.

Location definitely matters. TX (strangely enough) seems to have a good bit of women and as such the TDs are generally smart.

TDs here try to do right most of the time and probably get it right half the time. There is a fine line between trying to make sure the women are treated right and pandering.

IE, the women do not want "special" tees and have their ratings not count.

Which brings up another point of course equality, TDs do yourself a favor and make sure the girls are covered for propigators if you are going to have a different course for them to play. Nothing worse than signing up for the PDGA only to not get rated because you played a course with 4 12 year olds and nobody had an 800 rating.

 

[jcrab66]

i dont think spots should be held, on another note i played in a tourney a few years back where a girl had regged for womens rec and was the only one so she had the option of going to womens advanced (where there were already enough for a division) or mens rec, she chose mens rec and ended up beating the field of 25, she said it was the best she ever played....

 

[billnchristy]

Yes, and I said I have yet to hear a valid reason. It seems that women are more skiddish and unsure of signing up rather than having concrete and insurmountable disadvantages.

Comprehension seems to be lacking then.

Do you play pro with an 800 rating?

Would that make you "skiddish"?

 

[xdzt]

It is obvious for everyone to see that women disc golfers are in need of better motivation to sign up for tournaments. Maybe slightly lower entry fees? Maybe better advertisement of sites like www.discgolf4women.com? I'm not sure anyone has a "final answer" to this problem. I'm not sure that holding any number of spots would change anything...maybe it's worth a shot?

I disagree completely. Women needing better motivation to sign up for tournaments is a symptom, not a cause. It seems painfully clear to me that the core issue here is lack of female disc golfers. All of these other problems would simply evaporate if women made up a larger percentage of the disc golfing population. The real question here is how do we get the ladies interested in and excited about disc golf? Is this even feasible? What are the male/female percentages like in other sports?

 

[Johnny Conservative]

The first sanctioned tourney I played in there was a female in the group. She was very friendly and gave me a few pointers that I am not ashamed to say helped me alot. If I remember right I still beat her by a few strokes, but without her help she may have beat me. Dawn Osborn was her name. Dont know if anyone here knows her or not.

 

[JoshEpoo]

725 is 25 points from intermediate or 875 rated.

Do 875 rated guys play in A-tiers?

Yes.

And the other 2/3's of the question? Do you see them playing in Majors and NT's, the tournaments that really require a lot of organizing? No. They have separate events for the Ams. Perhaps hold some spots for ladies at the A-tiers that the Ams play at NT's?

If you're talking about a local A-tier, you can just talk to the ladies in your area about whether they're playing. If you're making travel plans to attend an event that's out of your area, pre-reg...

 

[JeCroisQue]

Reading back through this thread I am coming off as anti women, and that is completely not the case. I want more women to partake in this sport, I just don't agree with this tactic. There has to be other things out there that we can do to maximize interest in the female demographic.

The problems that holding spots for women addresses, are problems that men have too. They are just covered up because there is a huge amount of males playing and you don't notice because the tournament fills up regardless if a handfull of men are having issues with signing up.

No I don't play pro with an 800 rating. I signed up for my second tournament in late April. I am about an 850-900 rated player if I had to guess. I really don't know what division I should be playing in because I am not sure of how I compare to other players and have never formally competed. I have never played at any of the courses, and won't before the tournament. What did I do? I just signed up for a division in advance and will take whatever comes in front of me. I'm going to play for fun and because I love disc golf. It wouldn't make me skiddish at all.

 

[billnchristy]

^Agree with XDZT and most girls aren't going to "jump" into a major anyways.

The problem is the answer isn't black and white. I ran women's clinics for 2 years and had over 100 participants over that time.

We have gone from 0-2 women to around 3 average and upto 16 at a regular touranament.

So it has helped but a couple % success rate is nothing to brag about.

 

[billnchristy]

Reading back through this thread I am coming off as anti women, and that is completely not the case. I want more women to partake in this sport, I just don't agree with this tactic. There has to be other things out there that we can do to maximize interest in the female demographic.

The problems that holding spots for women addresses, are problems that men have too. They are just covered up because there is a huge amount of males playing and you don't notice because the tournament fills up regardless if a handfull of men are having issues with signing up.

No I don't play pro with an 800 rating. I signed up for my second tournament in late April. I am about an 850-900 rated player if I had to guess. I really don't know what division I should be playing in because I am not sure of how I compare to other players and have never formally competed. I have never played at any of the courses, and won't before the tournament. What did I do? I just signed up for a division in advance and will take whatever comes in front of me. I'm going to play for fun and because I love disc golf. It wouldn't make me skiddish at all.

It's a touchy subject and I can't say I am all for it either (holding spots) but I do feel that TDs should do everyting in their power to bring more women in. Whether this is the right answer is certainly up for debate.

My issue is complaining that this is unfair while neglecting the fact that the women get thrown the scraps is not right.

If holding spots for women is unfair then guys should play with juniors and get sub 100% payouts when everyone else gets >100% payouts.

That's my only beef with the whole thing.

You can easily look at the spot holding thing and say yeah that isn't fair but you have to know some of the junk a lot of women have had to put up with in tournaments to understand WHY they have to do special stuff to entice them.

 

[jasonc]

I disagree completely. Women needing better motivation to sign up for tournaments is a symptom, not a cause. It seems painfully clear to me that the core issue here is lack of female disc golfers. All of these other problems would simply evaporate if women made up a larger percentage of the disc golfing population. The real question here is how do we get the ladies interested in and excited about disc golf? Is this even feasible? What are the male/female percentages like in other sports?

You are absolutely correct in regards to the lack of female golfers.

However, I hope you understand that tournament players (men AND women) only make up a small percentage of total people that play disc golf. Further, PDGA members only represent a small percentage of disc golfers.

I'm not sure that the PDGA needs their own version of Title IX.

Efforts are currently being made to specifically cater to female disc golfers. You don't have to look too hard via a google search to find out more details. If you are not happy with the current state of the situation, start a grass roots effort in your community! :thmbup:

 

[jenb]

I disagree completely. Women needing better motivation to sign up for tournaments is a symptom, not a cause. It seems painfully clear to me that the core issue here is lack of female disc golfers. All of these other problems would simply evaporate if women made up a larger percentage of the disc golfing population. The real question here is how do we get the ladies interested in and excited about disc golf? Is this even feasible? What are the male/female percentages like in other sports?

You are right that the problem is low numbers, but it's not just about getting ladies interested, it's also about keeping them interested, and the difficulty in forming divisions at tournaments before they fill is a big reason many women stop competing. It's a problem that causes itself, and if we can get divisions forming more reliably for a while, then we might hope to get over that initial hump and build some momentum.

 

[xdzt]

You are right that the problem is low numbers, but it's not just about getting ladies interested, it's also about keeping them interested, and the difficulty in forming divisions at tournaments before they fill is a big reason many women stop competing. It's a problem that causes itself, and if we can get divisions forming more reliably for a while, then we might hope to get over that initial hump and build some momentum.

Interest will wax and wan with the individual, I have to think that having a larger player pool to draw from is the only viable path toward longterm success.

 

[tripp]

From reading the posts above, it appears that the majority of the problems discussed stem from the fact that, in general, there are not consistently enough women to field a division at tournaments.

I do not disagree that the women who do choose to play, are often dealt a raw deal. I realize that they would prefer to play with other women vs. Men and Juniors.

What I disagree with, is why should a single class get preferential treatment. I fully understand that if you want to entice more women to play, it would be best to hold spots open. I just disagree that any class should get preferential treatment. All women have the same opportunity to participate in tournaments, however, on a percentage basis, they choose not to. I do not feel it is the job of the TD/Supertour to go out of its way, at the detriment of another class (the last few males who got waitlisted instead of getting in), to entice a single class to participate more.

If women are getting a raw deal, then men are getting preferential treatment.
Gender blindness does not necessarily mean gender equality.

 

[JRW III]

Reading back through this thread I am coming off as anti women, and that is completely not the case. I want more women to partake in this sport, I just don't agree with this tactic. There has to be other things out there that we can do to maximize interest in the female demographic.

The problems that holding spots for women addresses, are problems that men have too. They are just covered up because there is a huge amount of males playing and you don't notice because the tournament fills up regardless if a handfull of men are having issues with signing up.

This^

I am all for women playing the sport and tournaments. I generally play Rec and have had the opportunity to play with women on my card and I enjoy their company.

I also respect other initiatives to attract more women to the sport, such as Bill's tournaments, and the Texas Womans Championships that are going to be played in my area soon.

 

[billnchristy]

Oh no I agree with Tripp!

Thanks JRW, I feel like a slacker not doing one this year. I suppose I could change that. I really want to figure out a way to make money to send women to USWDGC but I haven't quite nailed it down yet.

 

[bigghigg]

If women are getting a raw deal, then men are getting preferential treatment.
Gender blindness does not necessarily mean gender equality.

I was going to say this, but not as well...

 

[Chain Wrangler]

Well it's the truth. Of course a division won't form if everyone sits there and waits for it to form. Just sign up and there won't be this issue.

Why spend money when you are not sure you will have enough ladies to form a division. If there was a full refund policy I would jump on that **** quick and if no other ladies signed up I would know I would get my money back. Simple stuff.

 

[giles]

Why spend money when you are not sure you will have enough ladies to form a division. If there was a full refund policy I would jump on that **** quick and if no other ladies signed up I would know I would get my money back. Simple stuff.

I thought you could get full refund up till day of the event, and that is when it went to merch? I'd also think any TD I know would understand if you paid and told them, If I don't have 2 others in my division 3 days before, I'd like a full refund.