[Question] Rebranded Molds

[thatdirtykid]

Lol. I thought the Firebird guys were always bashing the Pioneer? Suddenly they call it the FD3 and it gets some love?

Funny I thought sexton firebirds were the fd3 variant of the firebird.

 

[dehaas]

Dunno if it was just me, but fd3's always felt a hair shallower than firebirds. Flight wasn't quite as beefy either.

 

[twistedraven]

I need more color glow FD3s damnit.

 

[dekdo]

I need more color glow FD3s damnit.

I mean I'll settle for a sexton firebird lol

 

[thatdirtykid]

The FD3 was one I could never get a straight answer to what mold combination it was. Generally if its a unique combo or uses the once proprietary anhyzer top (PD= Firebird with anhyzer top and PD2=Xcal with anhyzer top), its not hard to get that info from discmania. I always assumed it was the FL mold. No one ever confirmed the Sexton is or isnt the FL mold. We could use someone like Doth to do a video of firebird variants like he did with destroyers.

 

[twistedraven]

My color glow FD3 definitely doesn't have an anhyzer top. It has the same blunt nose as a firebird. Honestly it's very, very similar in shape to my color glow Firebird, except the PLH is slightly lower. I've never seen an FL, but I wonder if it stays true to the rest of the L molds in that it has the flat wing instead of concaved. The FD3 has a similar scooped wing like the Firebird.

 

[@CD-]

The FD3 was one I could never get a straight answer to what mold combination it was. Generally if its a unique combo or uses the once proprietary anhyzer top (PD= Firebird with anhyzer top and PD2=Xcal with anhyzer top), its not hard to get that info from discmania. I always assumed it was the FL mold. No one ever confirmed the Sexton is or isnt the FL mold. We could use someone like Doth to do a video of firebird variants like he did with destroyers.

The bottom FD3 mold piece matches the Firebird X, not the FL. I thought it was curious that DM never sold anything but stock C-line FD3s and special limited runs of glow/color glow/luster/mf C-line & swirly S-line FD3s. Makes me think Innova was also using the same top mold piece for some stock Star/GStar/CFR/Sexton Tour series runs over the years.

I believe PD2, XCal, TeeDevil, Scorpius, Emperor, DD3, and Destroyer all have shared the same bottom rim mold piece(s).

 

[Serious-OLD]

I just got two baseline Bullets for about the price of one fancy Praxis.

This thread is $$$!

 

[thatdirtykid]

The bottom FD3 mold piece matches the Firebird X, not the FL. I thought it was curious that DM never sold anything but stock C-line FD3s and special limited runs of glow/color glow/luster/mf C-line & swirly S-line FD3s. Makes me think Innova was also using the same top mold piece for some stock Star/GStar/CFR/Sexton Tour series runs over the years.

I believe PD2, XCal, TeeDevil, Scorpius, Emperor, DD3, and Destroyer all have shared the same bottom rim mold piece(s).

That all checks out with me. Do wonder how many different bottom molds they have gone through. I know there were two different ones being used on destroyers alone at one point. I think a lot of what discmania got/didn't get, especially the later innova era, had to do with what Innova was willing to do for them... With discmanias growth actively effecting innova sales/image, especially after EVO/Active were released.

 

[jenb]

When someone buys PDGA approved discs from another entity and rebrands them, does the rebranded disc have to get PDGA approved too?

 

[thatdirtykid]

When someone buys PDGA approved discs from another entity and rebrands them, does the rebranded disc have to get PDGA approved too?

Yes they do.

The PDGA has also been even less lenient than they were in the past with having discs from the same manufacturer but sold as two variants of the same mold requiring testing. Innova abused this for years. How many aviars were approved when they were selling P&A, BB, SB, Aviar-X, the XD was listed as an Aviar as well...

 

[@CD-]

When someone buys PDGA approved discs from another entity and rebrands them, does the rebranded disc have to get PDGA approved too?

Different brand/distributors requires new approval and a new disc name.

The PDGA has also been even less lenient than they were in the past with having discs from the same manufacturer but sold as two variants of the same mold requiring testing. Innova abused this for years. How many aviars were approved when they were selling P&A, BB, SB, Aviar-X, the XD was listed as an Aviar as well...

I certainly think Innova should have the Aviar Driver (Aviar-X top, BB Aviar bottom) separately approved since it uses at least 2 completely separate mold pieces than the now Aviar P&A and it uses KC Pro as the stiffest plastic blend. Most of the Aviar variations/lineage are probably grandfathered into approved status from prior rules not requiring re-approval if only a bead being added. The latest rules do require retesting when adding a bead and when the change may break the technical requirements (flex test/diameter to weight ratio/etc...).
https://www.pdga.com/technical-standards/manufacturer-guidelines

Kinda interesting that most of the '3' series versions of a lot of Innova molds did not get new PDGA approvals until a few years after they got released. A new version of the Wombat 3 just got re-approved today as well

 

[thatdirtykid]

Different brand/distributors requires new approval and a new disc name.


I certainly think Innova should have the Aviar Driver (Aviar-X top, BB Aviar bottom) separately approved since it uses at least 2 completely separate mold pieces than the now Aviar P&A and it uses KC Pro as the stiffest plastic blend. Most of the Aviar variations/lineage are probably grandfathered into approved status from prior rules not requiring re-approval if only a bead being added. The latest rules do require retesting when adding a bead and when the change may break the technical requirements (flex test/diameter to weight ratio/etc...).
https://www.pdga.com/technical-standards/manufacturer-guidelines

Kinda interesting that most of the '3' series versions of a lot of Innova molds did not get new PDGA approvals until a few years after they got released. A new version of the Wombat 3 just got re-approved today as well

Exactly, though I am not as familiar with all the mold piece combos for aviars. Wild since brands like gateway had to get discs approved more than once cause they wanted to highlight different blends with different names. The original "Chief" was a wizard in H blend and were approved separately. I am sure part of that was by choice because they wanted the different names. (though dont get me started on how confusing their re-using old names on new molds has been over time either...)

It always bugged me enough that I had to have an Eagle in my hand to know if its the X or L mold. Teebirds were the same way for a good while before they marketed the TL as its own disc. The lack of transparency in that stuff definitely had soured me to innova long before some of the more modern drama.

 

[PMantle]

I have zero doubts about the above molds.
The below molds are speculation because I haven't personally compared them.

Votum = Grackle
Omen or Coalesce = Alpha
Mana = Lobster

Not seen a Lobster in person, but I bought a Mana yesterday and it looks and flies exactly like my Streamline Echo from the MVP challenge set.

 

[mostlynorwegian]

Different brand/distributors requires new approval and a new disc name.


I certainly think Innova should have the Aviar Driver (Aviar-X top, BB Aviar bottom) separately approved since it uses at least 2 completely separate mold pieces than the now Aviar P&A and it uses KC Pro as the stiffest plastic blend.

The Aviar Driver has a full range of pro range of plastics. JK (soft), Yeti (med), KC (hard)

 

[VictorB]

I have zero doubts about the above molds.
The below molds are speculation because I haven't personally compared them.

Votum = Grackle
Omen or Coalesce = Alpha
Mana = Lobster

I think I posted in either the TSA or Mint thread, but the Omen is definitely not an Alpha, there's a distinct difference in rim width and some small differences in wing shape

 

[ajcloutier]

Does anyone know if the DDX mold became something different?

 

[jenb]

Does anyone know if the DDX mold became something different?

I doubt it because it was a disc mania top mold and tern bottom mold.

 

[@CD-]

Does anyone know if the DDX mold became something different?

not yet, Infinite has had a 2 molds added to their lineup using the Anhyzer top (Dynasty, Roman) but I don't think they will add any 12 speed stable discs with the Emperor and Pharaoh already in those spots of the flight chart.

Maybe Millennium will put out the DDx and other old DM molds in the new Experimental Series (ES) that they just announced The Millennium Experimental Series | Millennium Golf Discs but they have a similar logjam in that region of the flight chart as well (Scorpius and Falcon). Innova Factory Store could also get those molds approved and make limited runs w/ the same idea that if they are popular enough they could become stock molds (ie. the Fairway Disc became the Hawkeye).

 

[Moose33]

Does anyone know if the DDX mold became something different?

I don't think it has yet, but I kind of hope it does, I really threw those well and only have one glow C line left.