Refusing to Be Filmed

[wims]

... Too bad they didn't spell his name right.

I think the spelling is OK, although Kaelstroem would technically have been more correct.

 

[sidewinder22]

The rule has nothing to do media agreements though. Makes no mention of them so it's not as though a signed agreement is required for someone to be official media at an event. The players aren't aware of who's being paid and who isn't, or who's signed a contract and who hasn't, so why should that be a factor? If the media is TD-approved, it's official media.

Put it this way, if the TD said at the players' meeting that "Joe is going to be filming the lead card for us, thanks a lot Joe", then shouldn't the players take that to mean he's official and they should treat him as such? Much different than if Jim just shows up at the park, speaks to no one, and starts filming the round on his own. The players would be under no obligation to cooperate with him at all.

Except he doesn't really have the authority to ask to be edited out either. Competition Manual 3.06.A says that by participating in a PDGA event, he agrees "that the PDGA and its agents may publish photographs or images of [his] participation at PDGA-sanctioned events". Essentially, he shouldn't have a say in how the videographer uses whatever he shot, whether it's to ask to not be included or to ask that a close up of the logo on his hat or shirt be included after each of his throws.

To be fair, I'm not just disappointed that JohnE would ask such a thing of the videographer, I'm disappointed the videographer would comply, especially if he did film every throw. It would be one thing if he stopped shooting midway through the round...kinda the point of no return when it comes to the edit. But if he's got the footage, it should have been included.

So if he was upset by distractions that weren't the camera crew, why then were they asked to stop filming him? Not sure why this is a gray area if the crew was TD approved. Who cares if they were paid or not, or if they were one of the "usual" crews, or if it were spur of the moment? They were there with the permission of the TD so any existing media plans should cover them just fine. Specifically Competition Manual 3.06.A that states that they have the right to film any player they wish and use the video how they want if they're there as an approved "agent" of the PDGA (TD = PDGA).

If JohnE was upset and distracted by other things, that shouldn't give him cause to shut down the video crew if they're not among the things he's distracted by. And even if they were, I still don't think he can tell them to stop filming. Stop doing whatever it is they were doing to distract him, like if they're positioning themselves in a bad spot or talking too much or doing something else remediable. But no way is the simple act of pointing a camera at a player a distraction.

A. All participants agree that the PDGA and its agents may publish photographs and images of their participation at PDGA-sanctioned events.

B. All players at PDGA Elite Series/National Tour and Major events are requested to be available to any and all media while on site except during or within 30 minutes of the start of a competitive round.

C. Policies concerning media may be viewed on the PDGA Media page at www.pdga.com.

D. Media personnel should refrain from interviewing a player until AFTER they have officially submitted their scorecard to tournament officials.

The "Rules" actually say nothing about video or audio, only photography and images. Also this says nothing about recording, but only publishing.

JohnE has every right to ask, but has no right to demand, not to be video recorded.

 

[JC17393]

Video is literally moving images, but oh, you got us with the audio thing. How do you publish images without first recording them? Can't really do one without first doing the other. So it follows that if one is given the right to publish images of players participating in events, one has the right to record the images in the first place.

But you're right, John can ask but not demand not to be recorded (video, photo, or otherwise). Which is why I've also stated that I'm disappointed that the videographer complied with his request when he was under no obligation to do so.

 

[Major Tomahawk]

Why doesn't someone just ask JEM why he didn't want to be included in the video? I don't really know him or I would. The time I introduced myself to him he was like, meh, so I don't have him as a FB friend. Someone on this site must have befriended him.

 

[Keller]

JohnE is one of my least favorite Pro Disc Golfers.

To be honest, I'm glad he's edited out! I could care less if he was edited out of every future tournament he plays.

There, I said it!

 

[BionicRib]

The "Rules" actually say nothing about video or audio, only photography and images. Also this says nothing about recording, but only publishing.

JohnE has every right to ask, but has no right to demand, not to be video recorded.

Lol...good catch. One would think this rule was written with the pdga magazine in mind.

I think you could argue he has every right to refuse a video or audio recording without any repercussions.

 

[JTacoma03]

What would you say are the big 3 stops this year?

It's a hard list to make (which was part of my intended point) these days because IMO many events have leapfrogged to another level.

My list would be (excluding international):

USDGC
GBO

Then take your pick...LVC, GMC, BSF, MHO...there's a bunch of good ones.

 

[sidewinder22]

Lol...good catch. One would think this rule was written with the pdga magazine in mind.

I think you could argue he has every right to refuse a video or audio recording without any repercussions.

Exactly magazine, manuals, and website.

Examples of images from PDGA website:

 

[sidewinder22]

Video is literally moving images, but oh, you got us with the audio thing. How do you publish images without first recording them? Can't really do one without first doing the other. So it follows that if one is given the right to publish images of players participating in events, one has the right to record the images in the first place.

There's a difference between images and moving images which are typically defined as such or as video. There are also different rules regarding audio and video recordings in many places.

Images could be a caricature, painting, or drawing from memory. Doesn't require the right to be recorded to be a published image.

 

[JTacoma03]

There's a difference between images and moving images which are typically defined as such or as video...Images could be a caricature, painting, or drawing from memory. Doesn't require the right to be recorded to be a published image.

You're drawing arbitrary lines if this is in context of what constitutes one vs the other in the technical sense. There is no difference between "pictures" and "video"...it's just about the limits of our brains' processing power and "speed" of our eyes.


Talking about laws is different, so I can't speak to that...and I realize that's the discussion at hand.

Just wanted to point out the technicalities, carry on

 

[wims]

Video is just a series of pictures recorded in rapid succession

 

[teemkey]

Video is just a series of pictures recorded in rapid succession

Not true as a general rule in the digital world. Look up keyframes and inbetweens.

 

[BrotherDave]

Can they put him back in the footage except pixelate his face like if he was on Cops? Pixelate his discs too, lol.

 

[Countchunkula]

Can they put him back in the footage except pixelate his face like if he was on Cops? Pixelate his discs too, lol.

You're gonna have to wait for the director's cut.

 

[Zanguini]

Vintage Open: Unrated version
Contains 90 minutes of of extra footage "They" didn't want you to see, Shocking Rec on Rec action. These AMs know how to party, also contains 20 minutes of Johne looking slightly miffed.

 

[capskorner]

Someone on JohnE's facebook page asked the question why he didn't want to be filmed.. Here was his answer: "The distractions on the course yesterday were a bit frustrating. It's my personal choice, as a player, to request the distractions to stop."

 

[TimSyl]

Waaaah...waaaah...people were moving and stuff...and...and...I lost, please edit me out of the video...waaaah...I really wish we could play in a park without any other people around...waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhh.

 

[JTacoma03]

Not true as a general rule in the digital world. Look up keyframes and inbetweens.

A keyframe is just a chronological marker marking the beginning or ending of a Δ in an effect.

It's still a series of images taken in rapid succession. It's not the camera, it's our eyes and brain that are the weak link and cause us to see movement.

 

[brutalbrutus]

He lets himself get distracted or just flat out uses it as an excuse. There are all sorts of things moving when you are outside. Birds, dogs, leaves, flags, people, grass.... if you removed all people from his eyeline, he would find something else to blame it on...

 

[jmdaire27]

I have feelings about this. I'd like to share how I feel. They pertain more to the actor.

Knowing JE was playing and not included in the footage made the video feel disjointed, IMO. Nuance... but still enough to make me raise an eyebrow.

I believe this to be rather selfish on JEs part. After learning about his petty actions counting up to 30 when McB needed to tee off (but had to probably use the restroom quick?) a few years ago, all because someone did it to him eons ago, I've had a sour taste in my mouth about him. Couple that with this... the result leads me to consider him a poor ambassador for our growing sport. I admit, these are only two instances I am judging JE on, which is not enough to create a deviation, but it's enough for me to think poorly of him.

The argument he wanted to 'get rid of unwanted distractions' is a poor one. The guys were there filming the other 3 players... distractions happen, and these media driven distractions are becoming more popular. If you want to avoid that, go build a course on your own private land and don't participate in events.

Thank you for letting me share my feelings. Cheers.