right pec drill, questions on standstill and one step throws

[rehder]

Banzai as you move more weight forward you are getting more hyzer. Could that come from you leaning to the left more as you're leaning forward? Is your hip tilting to the left or are you planting your right leg a lot to the right of the line you're running toward?

what JR said

 

[BarrabusTheDiscGolfGnome]

Someone plz clarify for me what exactly is meant by getting weight forward. Does this mean bending forward at the waist (I do this when I throw from a standstill)? Or are you referring to having the majority of the body's weight (if not all of it) over the plant foot? I am having trouble following this conversation.

 

[garublador1]

Someone plz clarify for me what exactly is meant by getting weight forward. Does this mean bending forward at the waist (I do this when I throw from a standstill)? Or are you referring to having the majority of the body's weight (if not all of it) over the plant foot? I am having trouble following this conversation.

It's about weight over the plant foot.

 

[black udder]

Someone plz clarify for me what exactly is meant by getting weight forward. Does this mean bending forward at the waist (I do this when I throw from a standstill)? Or are you referring to having the majority of the body's weight (if not all of it) over the plant foot? I am having trouble following this conversation.

It's about weight over the plant foot.

yeah, just that. You should be standing on the plant foot enough so you don't fall over. If you watch Ken climo, you'll see that back leg kick up and his weight is all over on the plant foot. he's balancing on that plant foot. if your weight is back, then if you remove/pick up one of those legs, you'll fall over. MB recommended kicking the back leg back and over to help get your weight forward.

 

[Man_Utenbart]

At what distance should you feel snap? Is it possible to feel snap with a 150' throw with a putter, or do i have to throw it like '350 before feeling it?

Thanks-

Jk

 

[BarrabusTheDiscGolfGnome]

good question, I was getting a putter out to about 100 feet today and I still don't know if I felt anything. Sometimes I will get a pronounced sensation of pressure as the disc leaves the index finger of the throwing hand but that is usually accompanied by the disc ejecting itself far off to the right of where I was aiming. The disc does not turn over or anything it just comes out on the wrong line and flies flat for about 150 feet.

 

[JR]

Barrabus that sounds like a grip lock perhaps the disc isn't close enough to the chest or you won't accelerate fast enough in the end with the arm or perhaps you clenched too hard with the fingers. Check out technique correction section on grip lock.

Man with facial baldness: I don't know for sure but if one locked the wrist immobile at low strength before ejection one could feel the pressure and the weight of added weight of the disc on the fingers. Just beware that too much power on this can hurt at least if you've got heightened sensitivity like shot tendons from severe plural of tendonitis is what tendonitii?

 

[garublador1]

Unless it's a really low throw, I wouldn't expect a 150' shot with a putter to have much, if any "snap" on it. Most people, even with moderate snap need to change grips to avoid snap (I do it to avoid or really dial down how much the disc rips from my fingers) at those distances. It could be that from a standstill and throwing on a low line you are feeling some, so if that's the case, try throwing higher and see what happens. FWIW, my experience is that "snap" feels like more the disc flinging itself out of your hand and less like you actually throwing the disc...if that makes any sense.

Barbus, if the pressure you're talking about is on your index finger, you might be getting a slip rather than a rip on those drives. I don't have anything else to add except to do what JR said.

 

[black udder]

At what distance should you feel snap? Is it possible to feel snap with a 150' throw with a putter, or do i have to throw it like '350 before feeling it?

Thanks-

Jk

I think you can feel snap at almost any distance. It's the amount of snap that you impart that determines how far your disc goes. If you don't know what it feels like, then it'll be harder to identify at first, but once you know, you can feel it anytime.

To feel snap without throwing, just leave your wrist limp, do a reachback and pull into your shoulder, then out again. The shape is like a wide V. You should feel your wrist bounce in towards your chest or shoulder and then when you throw out away from your body you'll feel your wrist bounce outwards again. The whole motion should take your wrist from a neutral position to flopping/bouncing to a closed position and right away to an open/neutral position again.

It's that motion that you need to keep with the disc and that ejection held until the last moment of your throw that will propel your disc. If I want to reduce distance, I just don't reach back as far. It's not hard to make a relaxed motion from about the right pec drill region and get a disc out to 150'+.

 

[noah1]

To feel snap without throwing, just leave your wrist limp, do a reachback and pull into your shoulder, then out again. The shape is like a wide V. You should feel your wrist bounce in towards your chest or shoulder and then when you throw out away from your body you'll feel your wrist bounce outwards again. The whole motion should take your wrist from a neutral position to flopping/bouncing to a closed position and right away to an open/neutral position again.

I don't get the wide V. What exactly is a wide V shape?

Also, this makes snap sound like something that isn't forced. Like wrist is along for the ride and it just happens. I have always consiously opened cocked and opened my wrist. Is this wrong?

 

[BarrabusTheDiscGolfGnome]

Noah-
To the best of my knowledge the wrist hinges due to acceleration of the arm and torso. As you pull across the chest and down the arm, the wrist closes and then flicks open as the arm fully extends and forces the wrist to do the same (think cracking a whip, fluid and rolling motion). From what Bradley Walker and Aaron D have said the motion of the wrist is not a conscious effort but a natural result of proper throwing mechanics. Somebody correct me if I am wrong.

 

[black udder]

To feel snap without throwing, just leave your wrist limp, do a reachback and pull into your shoulder, then out again. The shape is like a wide V. You should feel your wrist bounce in towards your chest or shoulder and then when you throw out away from your body you'll feel your wrist bounce outwards again. The whole motion should take your wrist from a neutral position to flopping/bouncing to a closed position and right away to an open/neutral position again.

I don't get the wide V. What exactly is a wide V shape?

Also, this makes snap sound like something that isn't forced. Like wrist is along for the ride and it just happens. I have always consiously opened cocked and opened my wrist. Is this wrong?

The wrist is sort of along for the ride. It has to be fairly loose to open up with speed. I know some people open it at the hit, but I don't. Blake would be the one to say if you should open it or let it open. My thought process is that as soon as you put manual effort into opening the wrist, you're losing the momentum you've built (unless you are exactly in tune with it timing wise). I guess that the best throwers have this great timing, but I know I'm not there.

See if this is any clearer. Hold your arm straight in front of you (right arm), then angle it about 45 degrees to the left. It should be fully extended but about lined up with your left shoulder. With a loose wrist, pull your hand into your right shoulder - close enough your fingers can almost touch your shoulder - then, quickly extend your elbow out to the right. You should feel your wrist fold into your shoulder, then pop open when you extend your arm. That's the feeling I'm talking about. If you do it a few times you'll get the idea enough to repeat it in a reachback and throw (same idea, pull your hand into your shoulder, then extend your arm). What you get is that your wrist flicks open at the end or actually near the end of your throw. That, combined with rotation yields the big snap. The better your timing, the more rotation and momentum you can build into the throw all the way up to that final flick of the wrist. It's a tough thing to do because you can't grip the disc too tightly or your wrist isn't flexible but you have to hold it tight enough that the disc doesn't come out early when you are coming out away from your shoulder for the final extension of the throw.

 

[noah1]

To feel snap without throwing, just leave your wrist limp, do a reachback and pull into your shoulder, then out again. The shape is like a wide V. You should feel your wrist bounce in towards your chest or shoulder and then when you throw out away from your body you'll feel your wrist bounce outwards again. The whole motion should take your wrist from a neutral position to flopping/bouncing to a closed position and right away to an open/neutral position again.

I don't get the wide V. What exactly is a wide V shape?

Also, this makes snap sound like something that isn't forced. Like wrist is along for the ride and it just happens. I have always consiously opened cocked and opened my wrist. Is this wrong?

The wrist is sort of along for the ride. It has to be fairly loose to open up with speed. I know some people open it at the hit, but I don't. Blake would be the one to say if you should open it or let it open. My thought process is that as soon as you put manual effort into opening the wrist, you're losing the momentum you've built (unless you are exactly in tune with it timing wise). I guess that the best throwers have this great timing, but I know I'm not there.

See if this is any clearer. Hold your arm straight in front of you (right arm), then angle it about 45 degrees to the left. It should be fully extended but about lined up with your left shoulder. With a loose wrist, pull your hand into your right shoulder - close enough your fingers can almost touch your shoulder - then, quickly extend your elbow out to the right. You should feel your wrist fold into your shoulder, then pop open when you extend your arm. That's the feeling I'm talking about. If you do it a few times you'll get the idea enough to repeat it in a reachback and throw (same idea, pull your hand into your shoulder, then extend your arm). What you get is that your wrist flicks open at the end or actually near the end of your throw. That, combined with rotation yields the big snap. The better your timing, the more rotation and momentum you can build into the throw all the way up to that final flick of the wrist. It's a tough thing to do because you can't grip the disc too tightly or your wrist isn't flexible but you have to hold it tight enough that the disc doesn't come out early when you are coming out away from your shoulder for the final extension of the throw.

That makes sense, I thought Barabus was you and so I was doing something like what you recommended and I could feel that. I'd try that with a disc in my hand, but I'm at my girlfriends house and I already sent a disc across the room on accident once tonight. Crashed into a bunch of glass crap, but didn't break anything.

Screw it she's not home yet!

Okay, I just tried it with a disc and I could feel the weight of the disc pulling my wrist open!

BU, Thank you so much for answering my questions all the time.

 

[banzai7]

Banzai as you move more weight forward you are getting more hyzer. Could that come from you leaning to the left more as you're leaning forward? Is your hip tilting to the left or are you planting your right leg a lot to the right of the line you're running toward?

Yeah, I think this is what's up. I'm noticing that by really focusing on my hip pivot and getting weight forward, it's causing me to drop my rear shoulder. The problem is not hyzer-footwork. From a standstill it only happens when I put my hips into the throw and kick up my rear leg.

I see if that solves the problem. But now I'm wondering how to pivot the hips w/o dropping the rear shoulder... ugh.

 

[JR]

Banzai as you move more weight forward you are getting more hyzer. Could that come from you leaning to the left more as you're leaning forward? Is your hip tilting to the left or are you planting your right leg a lot to the right of the line you're running toward?

Yeah, I think this is what's up. I'm noticing that by really focusing on my hip pivot and getting weight forward, it's causing me to drop my rear shoulder. The problem is not hyzer-footwork. From a standstill it only happens when I put my hips into the throw and kick up my rear leg.

I see if that solves the problem. But now I'm wondering how to pivot the hips w/o dropping the rear shoulder... ugh.

Try standing on the balls of your feet upright feet at shoulder width separation arms hanging loosely down and turn right at the hips. If the legs need to turn at the end of the rotation that's fine. See if you can get 120 degrees of chest turning with the majority coming from the hips. Even half of that is ok.

Maintain a perfectly upright stance at all times. That should help. When you can turn this way for 120 degrees with the chest's center line push with the left leg and pivot with the feet and you should achieve 120 degrees much more easily and then just add a bit more degrees to the chest rotation. Then you're ready to try hyzers and annies. Once you can do this with knees bent like in a real weight forward throw and moving the weight as far forward as with a normal throw all you need to do is to add steps. Whichever way you prefer and gradually add speed until you can do this at 100 % power. The first steps in this drill shouldn't take long at all. With luck you could get this in one field practice session.

 

[BarrabusTheDiscGolfGnome]

I know that I am strong arming the disc and I generate almost no power with my hips/torso. In order to fix this I try to throw from a standstill and coil up then unwind and throw but my timing sucks and I cannot get any sort of mustard on the disc. Are there any drills that I can do to help me involve my lower body in the throw or help improve my timing??

 

[noah1]

To feel snap without throwing, just leave your wrist limp, do a reachback and pull into your shoulder, then out again. The shape is like a wide V. You should feel your wrist bounce in towards your chest or shoulder and then when you throw out away from your body you'll feel your wrist bounce outwards again. The whole motion should take your wrist from a neutral position to flopping/bouncing to a closed position and right away to an open/neutral position again.

I don't get the wide V. What exactly is a wide V shape?

Also, this makes snap sound like something that isn't forced. Like wrist is along for the ride and it just happens. I have always consiously opened cocked and opened my wrist. Is this wrong?

The wrist is sort of along for the ride. It has to be fairly loose to open up with speed. I know some people open it at the hit, but I don't. Blake would be the one to say if you should open it or let it open. My thought process is that as soon as you put manual effort into opening the wrist, you're losing the momentum you've built (unless you are exactly in tune with it timing wise). I guess that the best throwers have this great timing, but I know I'm not there.

See if this is any clearer. Hold your arm straight in front of you (right arm), then angle it about 45 degrees to the left. It should be fully extended but about lined up with your left shoulder. With a loose wrist, pull your hand into your right shoulder - close enough your fingers can almost touch your shoulder - then, quickly extend your elbow out to the right. You should feel your wrist fold into your shoulder, then pop open when you extend your arm. That's the feeling I'm talking about. If you do it a few times you'll get the idea enough to repeat it in a reachback and throw (same idea, pull your hand into your shoulder, then extend your arm). What you get is that your wrist flicks open at the end or actually near the end of your throw. That, combined with rotation yields the big snap. The better your timing, the more rotation and momentum you can build into the throw all the way up to that final flick of the wrist. It's a tough thing to do because you can't grip the disc too tightly or your wrist isn't flexible but you have to hold it tight enough that the disc doesn't come out early when you are coming out away from your shoulder for the final extension of the throw.

Does snap feel like your wrist is stretching by reaching back against your fore arm?

 

[black udder]

that sounds like tendon bounce which is one of the things that helps with snap.

 

[JR]

that sounds like tendon bounce which is one of the things that helps with snap.

That's even more likely if you also feel that the disc squeezes the finger tips during the late acceleration once the wrist starts to open.

 

[Odaon]

This thread is really useful. I've learned a lot that will help me improve my throw (eventually) in this thread. Thanks guys,