[Innova] RIP Gazelle

[billnchristy]

They could always name the new one Gazelle too.

Of course that would probably go over like trying to name the Ford Probe the new Mustang.

What makes a mold not good for premium plastics? And how did Stingray get adapted?

 

[craigg]

I've got a few gazelles for anyone interested.

 

[billnchristy]

What else do you have Craig? I might have to clean you out.

 

[craigg]

Probably no more than 4 or 5, and probably all DX, I will dig them out and see what there is.

 

[billnchristy]

Ok let me know when you get a chance...

 

[garublador]

I'm going to quote myself. This was my post over on Disc Golf Review this morning:

This is why I think the Gazelle died. It doesn't make it any easier.

I don't know why, but I never realized you two were the same person. It seems pretty obvious now.

FWIW, the D Cyclone is really similar to the DX Gazelle. The initial reviews of the ESP Cyclone are pretty good, too. If you can throw Teebirds well than there's always the DX Eagle-X, also.

The theory I've heard about why older discs don't seem to work well in high end plastic is that when the high end stuff cools it makes stabilizing features that much more defined. These discs were desigend to be a bit overstable when new and break into being awesome so when the features that make them a bit overstable get even more defined they end up too overstable and then don't break in as fast or the same as DX.

 

[billnchristy]

So basically the old molds are too sloppy?

 

[ShaZaun]

I've never thrown one...... I guess sales are down....I might see if AHP99 will let me borrow his.....

 

[_DA_]

Good job Innova. You finally convinced me to try out a cyclone.

 

[garublador]

So basically the old molds are too sloppy?

It's more like the cheap plastic doesn't cool the same way the expensive stuff does. I haven't seen any greater variance in runs with DX or D than I have with Champ or Z.

 

[billnchristy]

Still makes me wonder how the stingray ends up in the expensive plastic. Did they make a new mold?

 

[Three Putt]

So basically the old molds are too sloppy?

It's more like the cheap plastic doesn't cool the same way the expensive stuff does. I haven't seen any greater variance in runs with DX or D than I have with Champ or Z.

It's actually pretty easy to see if you look closely. The base plastics like DX or the old Tourney Pro shrunk out of the mold. The resulting discs have a smaller diameter and a less defined nose than the actual mold. Features like a notch or bead are also minimized a bit.

When the same molds are used in premium plastic, the plastic packs out and really shows the detail of the mold. The discs have a larger diameter, blunter nose and more defined stabilizing features than the DX versions from the same mold. Bigger diameter, blunter nose, bigger bead=a slower, more overstable disc. In the case discs like the Gazelle, the premium plastic versions had no glide and flew nothing like the DX versions.

Also, like I said before, the discs designed before premium plastics were designed to start out more stable than the intended flight. The base plastic beats in quickly, so the discs were supposed to start out more overstable than intended and break into the sweet spot. Once you convert to premium plastic, the discs don't break in. They stay like they were out of the box for a long time.

So a disc like the Gazelle has a double whammy in premium plastic. The plastic makes it even MORE overstable than the too overstable way it was designed, and then the plastic never beats in. So you really can't run them in premium plastic. As a result Omega Supersloth and the "I'm too evolved for DX" crowd will never throw a Gazelle, despite the fact that a well seasoned DX Gazelle in flight is a thing of beauty.

What is disappointing about this is that the natural rival of the Gazelle, the Discraft Cyclone, was recently run in ESP. The ESP Cyclone is the closest thing to a Tourney Pro Cyclone I've ever thrown. It opens up potential new life for that great disc. I would have like to see the Gazelle at least tried in Star before it was killed.

 

[garublador]

Still makes me wonder how the stingray ends up in the expensive plastic. Did they make a new mold?

My understanding of the Stingray is that it was meant to be a distance driver when it came out. The goal wasn't to have a disc that you cycled and used for control, it was to have a disc you could throw high and have it turn and stay that way to get max D. It was never meant to be overstable at all. In high end plastic it's more like a netural to understable mid than an old school distance driver.

 

[Three Putt]

Still makes me wonder how the stingray ends up in the expensive plastic. Did they make a new mold?

My understanding of the Stingray is that it was meant to be a distance driver when it came out. The goal wasn't to have a disc that you cycled and used for control, it was to have a disc you could throw high and have it turn and stay that way to get max D. It was never meant to be overstable at all. In high end plastic it's more like a netural to understable mid than an old school distance driver.

Yep. We used to hyzer flip Stingrays and Eclipses for max D. God, that just made me feel old. Anyway, the Stingray has been reinvented as a turnover mid. The premium plastic versions are more overstable than the DX versions, but it makes them better suited for what that disc is used for now.

 

[12StonesScott]

Still makes me wonder how the stingray ends up in the expensive plastic. Did they make a new mold?

I have 180g Stingrays in both DX and Star. The Star version is absolutely more stable than the DX version -- I tend not to throw either very much these days, because I'm trying to stay with lighter discs, but throwing them one right after the other you can definitely see the difference. Now, given that they've been thrown roughly the same amount, the DX disc is of course more beat-in at this point, but even when new (and I got them at almost the same time), the difference was there.

I suspect Innova makes the Stingray in Star plastic since there are a lot of us out there who use 'em in DX and start looking for something that'll take the tree abuse they get at our hands a bit better. And since they're more stable, we hit trees we used to miss and beat 'em in nearly as fast as the DX versions .

 

[billnchristy]

Sweet, thanks guys....I guess a little stability doesn't hurt the Ray but makes the gazelle kind of useless huh?

 

[Three Putt]

Sweet, thanks guys....I guess a little stability doesn't hurt the Ray but makes the gazelle kind of useless huh?

Oh, the KC Gazelle was really useful when I wanted to be short and way over to the left. Even the early Pro Gazelles were too beefy for me. I used to throw the KC Cheetah instead. The extra stability on the Cheetah made it fly close to a DX Gazelle.

 

[BrotherDave]

Well, it was named the Gazelle, that might have something to do with poor sales. How many noobs run into the store salivating at the big bad Gazelle instead of that gay Destroyer, Xcaliber, or Boss sitting there?

 

[BrotherDave]

Still makes me wonder how the stingray ends up in the expensive plastic. Did they make a new mold?

That's easy, the Stingray is the fiercest, deadliest disc in Innova's line-up, after all, it is the only thing that has successfully killed Steve Irwin.

 

[billnchristy]

That's easy, the Stingray is the fiercest, deadliest disc in Innova's line-up, after all, it is the only thing that has successfully killed Steve Irwin.

That's 'cause his ass didn't spend enough time in the sarengeti.

he'd have been tasting fierce gazelle horn if so.