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Short-arm Apex Pitch Putting

I agree with everything you said EKG, except for the fact that its easy to be tentative.

I think this putt is many times more effeciant under pressure. You have far less that can possibly go wrong. Its just a quick lift of the upper arm and an openin of the wrist.

Im not Blake but I think that its very important to have both. Like you said, for headwinds its not as effeciant as the push putt. If you have a low ceiling its a lot easier to push putt. Learn both. Learning the pitch putt in a few short weeks has already helped me out tons and havin my push putt tendencies has really helped for those tight spots where I cant push putt.
 
So I guess my question is: Blake, you've mastered this technique but do you resort to other techniques in certain situations? Do you feel that its a good or bad thing to use multiple putting platforms or should you just stick to one?

the secret technique is just releasing the disc from a consistent spot on the disc and that it should be beyond 3 o'clock. the easiest way to get this consistent release is to short arm the putt. it doesn't really matter how you power it, you should ideally be proficient at all of them, being able to generate the same kind of wrist extension/finger spring regardless of what arm motion you use. people get shocked when i give a putting lesson because i'll step up and nail like 8 putts in a row all 8 of which i used a completely different putting motion (and i'll even throw some left-foot forward putts to show just how unimportant stance is... i usually bust this out when people think the straddle stance is magical).

i can putt horseshoe style, straight pitch, nose down pitch, nose up pitch, elbow extension putt from the chest flat, elbow extension anhyzer, ron russell throw, hyzer putt with fade, stall putt with fade, straight hyzer putt, tons of variations on nose up putts (using anhyzer to keep it flying straight, generating force to keep it holding forward, kind of like an air bounce approach) etc.

i can putt with square shoulders, off-set shoulders, perpendicular shoulders, shoulders closed at the start, etc. i can hit ~70% or better from 25' with pretty much every style when i'm warmed up.

you have to make adjustments constantly on the course. yes, when i putt uphill i use more of a thrust/throw from the chest with my shoulders squared up. when i putt downhill i tend to straddle putt with a straight pitch. into the wind i use a little flat 6" flip from the belt. on a low celing putt i will putt from 1 knee or use a lower starting point and a more offset stance. etc. you should be proficient at nearly everything if you give stuff enough practice.

in the long run, as you develop a solid stroke you learn the inherent strengths/weaknesses of each style of POWERING the putt. the release stays the same (extended wrist, on plane, etc.).

my latest mess around putt i call the flip dick putt. you take a straddle stance and hold the putter in front of your junk with your hand at 3 o'clock. then you do a jump straddle and basically flip the putter upwards with a 6" motion and a rotation of the hand to 6 o'clock. i can putt from about 60' with this style, generally throwing a 10-20' high nose down tower that drops straight at the basket with less than 1' of fade. it's not really practical, more of something to mess around with and prove a point.

the release is the magic.
 
I'm still trying to sort out exactly what the short-arm putt should look like at distances further than MB's video. I thought I had it figured out, but like EKG I'm realizing that I don't. On this month's DGM clip 1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=seSvy77-goI) when they show the previous round highlights, there's a putt at around the 10:09 mark that is quite close to what I picture the putt should look like, but a little more line drive than pitch. Since I'm still trying to sort out what the short arm putt should look like any discussion would be appreciated on how this putt on DGM is and isn't Blake T's short-arm.
 
Disclaimer: I'm way out of practice, and I still suck at the "get your mind out of your own way" part of putting, that said...

When I was getting into the pivot/fling thing, and started applying it to my putting, once I got used to springing the disc around the pivot I found that as long as the "arrow" (the opposite side of the pivot) was around 10-11 o'clock when it left my hand, the flights were consistently good. Good pop, good line, great chance of going in.

When the putts stopped going in, I found that if I focused on stance or weight shift, it didn't do much for consistency, but if I re-focused on popping right when that arrow was hitting 10-11 o'clock, it'd come right back.

Is there a qualitative difference between focusing on the hand (pivot) point as opposed to the forward (arrow) point?
 
Blake, Thanks for taking the time to answer the question. Interesting, so what you're saying here is that as long as the putt is short-armed/released from the same spot, how you power it doesn't matter. You should basically be finger springing every putt in every style in any situation but always making sure you release it from the same spot.

So here is another question. Do you alter your grip at all when you change between styles? When I short arm/pitch putt the only way I can get it to work is if I use the fan grip. It helps me with finger spring. But the fan grip, to me, has its limitations on power which is why I resort to other styles when the situation calls for it. When I spin putt the only way I can get it to work is if I use a power-ish type of grip.

Now if I were to try to pitch putt with a power grip I'd get bad results and vice versa. When I try to short arm a low ceiling 40' and up putt, I feel like I can't generate the same amount of power without the technique breaking down. I guess I'm having a hard time getting my head around how I'd power a low ceiling putt using the short arm finger spring method. Are you saying you can use an approach shot backswing (for lack of a better term) or similar amount of power and still come through with short-arm/finger spring? If so, thats pretty beastly and I've got a lot more work to do...
 
Blake, Thanks for taking the time to answer the question. Interesting, so what you're saying here is that as long as the putt is short-armed/released from the same spot, how you power it doesn't matter. You should basically be finger springing every putt in every style in any situation but always making sure you release it from the same spot.

the key to all putting styles is the release. you can't get a consistent putt without a consistent release. everything else is secondary.

that being said, how you power it DOES matter, but you won't really see the results unless you have a consistent release. every method of powering the putt has its strengths and weaknesses. most of the completely linear methods has a weakness of lack of power/range limitations. if you have a lot of elbow extension you will have more power but this will yield a miss tendency to the right. a method of powering that has a lot of flaws will make it hard to get much better than 70% from 30', with the bulk of the misses coming from technique failure. ideally, all of your misses will be because of improper aim or misjudging the wind.
if a technique fails 20% of the time, it isn't as good as a technique that fails 5% of the time. the 20% technique might have an increased make % from 40', but honestly, if it fails 20% of the time at 25', you are better off with a technique that is better at 25' and worse at 40'.

So here is another question. Do you alter your grip at all when you change between styles? When I short arm/pitch putt the only way I can get it to work is if I use the fan grip. It helps me with finger spring. But the fan grip, to me, has its limitations on power which is why I resort to other styles when the situation calls for it. When I spin putt the only way I can get it to work is if I use a power-ish type of grip.

i grip the same with any putt. the fan grip (assuming your index and pinkey are on the rim wall) provides more than adequate power for everything inside 150'. on putts you let go of the disc. i will reiterate that... on putts, you let go of the disc. hanging a finger = technique failure. power grip = hanging on more without really increasing power potential.

When I try to short arm a low ceiling 40' and up putt, I feel like I can't generate the same amount of power without the technique breaking down. I guess I'm having a hard time getting my head around how I'd power a low ceiling putt using the short arm finger spring method.

jump putts increase power. there's tons of modifications you can do. with a low ceiling pitch you have to lower your pull start point and your release. basically, you have to set a lower trajectory and the easiest way to do that is to lower your starting and finishing points. the deeper your bag of tricks the better you are in any situation. from 40' with a low ceiling i can do a ron russell-styled throw putt, a pitch from one knee, bend my knees a ton and stagger my shoulders and pull from my left shin to my belt, "straddle" from both knees, elbow extension or throw putt from 1 knee, a jump putt with a lower release point, etc.

Are you saying you can use an approach shot backswing (for lack of a better term) or similar amount of power and still come through with short-arm/finger spring? If so, thats pretty beastly and I've got a lot more work to do...

yes. can buzz the chains from up to ~125'. the key is in the release.
 
masterbeato said:
...and the straddle putt is magical

Yup. I switched to a straddle about 1 1/2 years ago and I've seen a huge improvement in my putting.
 
The short arm pitch putt clicked for me last night. I was putting at my basket in my old style (some sort of long arm hybrid spin-pitch putt) and not pleased with the results. I decided to try some short arm putts for a change and did my best to emulate what I had seen on the beto vids. I was able to generate tons of power in a compact motion and was wayyyyy more accurate. I can't wait to work on this again!!!
 
cool.

once you learn how to short arm a putt, long-arming it outside of 15' isn't really something you'll ever do again. it's not even about pitch vs. throw-putt, etc. it's more about just releasing closer so that you are able to force the timing mechanisms to occur more consistently and reducing yanks to the right. since it's a force based putt you also get greater wind penetration and shorter comebacks.

after working with someone this evening and doing some drills i was able to find out why MB is having trouble with this style, and it's that he's extending his wrist too aggressively which leads to difficulty in timing the finger spring as well as a variable "push" point of the palm on the disc.

after about 5 minutes of tossing a putter back and forth from 8' away indoors trying to hit various trajectories and nose angles with 0 wobble. it was there where i was able to spot the problem and we solved it by tossing a phone book back and forth while making it preserve its plane the entire flight with 0 spin (no clockwise rotation nor forward rotation).

the wrist extension is more of a natural unhinging with a slight nudge of the palm at the end (as i have written about in the short arm putting article i wrote years ago). nudging the same spot every time on the disc is the key to consistency in this (i find it at ~4:30 if the disc was a clock).
 
Blake_T said:
it's more about just releasing closer so that you are able to force the timing mechanisms to occur more consistently and reducing yanks to the right. since it's a force based putt you also get greater wind penetration and shorter comebacks.

Word.

I was tearing it up again last night. My lower forearm area is a little bit sore from the extra work it's been getting in the past two evenings but in a good way.

I've found that I'm hitting metal more than airballing when I miss now. I can stay stationary out to 50-60' and further just requires a little step through. Comebacks are all in my comfortable to make range.

Thanks for all the wisdom Blake!
 
during the first few months it's key to create a simple mental checklist of things/positions you NEED to have happen.

my last checklist was 4 things.
1. starting point.
2. stopping point.
3. hand position at release.
4. speed/pacing of the motion.

your checklist should be able to troubleshoot whatever is failing.
 
Thanks Blake, and this would be...?

Blake_T said:
during the first few months it's key to create a simple mental checklist of things/positions you NEED to have happen.

my last checklist was 4 things.
1. starting point. Below waist
2. stopping point. Above waist
3. hand position at release. Handshake position
4. speed/pacing of the motion. Up to user?

your checklist should be able to troubleshoot whatever is failing.
 
it's more about finding which of those points work best for you. they change slightly depending upon how far away you are and the wind.

you are early in your mastery of it so your checklist will likely have different things, such as starting hand orientation, finishing hand orientation, etc... basically try to get an understanding for the fundamentals that need to happen.
 
uNicedmeMan said:
ok nevermind. I suck again :(

Greg, are you playing anymore tournaments or are you done for the year? I'd be more than happy to show you some things the next time I run into you. I absolutely believe that seeing it done correctly will help you figure it out faster. Words and explanations can only do so much.

You read Feldberg's interview on 1000 rated didn't you? He locked himself in a warehouse for 4 months just to learn this style of putting. I didn't have a warehouse to lock myself in so it's taken me over two years to figure it out.

This is absolutely the hardest part of the game. Harder than learning to drive. Harder than spin putting. Stick with it, you'll get better at it. The game becomes a million times more fun when you don't miss putts you should make.
 
EKG said:
uNicedmeMan said:
ok nevermind. I suck again :(

Greg, are you playing anymore tournaments or are you done for the year? I'd be more than happy to show you some things the next time I run into you. I absolutely believe that seeing it done correctly will help you figure it out faster. Words and explanations can only do so much.

You read Feldberg's interview on 1000 rated didn't you? He locked himself in a warehouse for 4 months just to learn this style of putting. I didn't have a warehouse to lock myself in so it's taken me over two years to figure it out.

This is absolutely the hardest part of the game. Harder than learning to drive. Harder than spin putting. Stick with it, you'll get better at it. The game becomes a million times more fun when you don't miss putts you should make.

I think I'm gonna try and play the Codorus fall open next weekend (9/10). I'm totally down for a round sometime, I'm sure there is alot you could show me. I'm really working on getting in shape right now and would like to play many tourneys next year.
 
uNicedmeMan said:
I think I'm gonna try and play the Codorus fall open next weekend (9/10). I'm totally down for a round sometime, I'm sure there is alot you could show me. I'm really working on getting in shape right now and would like to play many tourneys next year.

I'll be there. I'm headed up there tomorrow for a practice round. I'm not going to get into your head before a tournament, so we'll go over it afterwards.
 

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