Silver Series: 2022 Music City Open Apr 1-3

[glassila]

Right, but what happens when somebody compiles a bunch of footage of a player who might have a high tendency of foot faulting? If they complain enough and show proof are you gonna start seeing officials following that player's card?

Easy way to alleviate any situations like that is to play within the rules, but they need to either have a rules official or whatever on every card or none at all.

I disagree that an official needs to follow every card. I think it would be enough if there were 2 or 3 rules "undercover" officials that just floated around and watched for violations.
OR have them stationed on 2 or 3 specific holes (without the players knowing which holes) and watch every group come through those holes.

I think if it was announced at the player's meeting that officials would be out on the course it would curb violations somewhat.

And it's important that the rules official makes the call if he/she sees an obvious violation like taking well over 30 seconds to throw/putt.

 

[dehaas]

We'll call the undercover official the New Arbitrary Rules Commissioner. They'll have a badge they flash to everybody when they make a violations call.

Personally I think players should still be making the calls themselves. I agree that a card with each group is probably overkill, but only having an official with the few top cards sends a bad message.

Play like garbage and we don't care about your foot faults but have a hot round and now magically we do. That's not really incentivizing consistent enforcement, which I think gives a bad look for an entity trying really hard to make dg look like a legit professional sport.

 

[glassila]

We'll call the undercover official the New Arbitrary Rules Commissioner. They'll have a badge they flash to everybody when they make a violations call.

Personally I think players should still be making the calls themselves. I agree that a card with each group is probably overkill, but only having an official with the few top cards sends a bad message.

Play like garbage and we don't care about your foot faults but have a hot round and now magically we do. That's not really incentivizing consistent enforcement, which I think gives a bad look for an entity trying really hard to make dg look like a legit professional sport.

I would like to see players making calls too, but in the last 10 years how many times has this occurred?
1. most players are focused on their own game and aren't really looking for violations on their card.
2. every player knows that if they call a violation it's going to kill the mood for the rest of the day.

Plus do we really expect players to have their phone out to time another player or to record a throw to see if a foot fault occurred? An official on the other hand can do it.

 

[Shallows]

I take this issue very personally because every second spent watching Nikko putt is time that could be spent wondering what scores everyone on the card has, listening one more time to the beautiful classical etude between holes, or getting my eardrums blown out by that DGN ad.

 

[nothinbuttree]

Just a random non-Nikko related thought.

This course has too many 1st throw layups/positional throws for my taste. I don't mind a couple in a round, but it seems like there were 5 or 6 on this course where the 1st throw was just a short approach shot, and the 'drive' was on the 2nd throw, without the benefit of a teepad. A couple 1st throws were 200' putter shots. Just rubs me the wrong way I guess. Also seemed like so many of the par 4's looked the same. Just something about the layout was really boring to me.
Just one paying client's opinion though. YMMV.

 

[Cgkdisc]

Just a random non-Nikko related thought.

This course has too many 1st throw layups/positional throws for my taste. I don't mind a couple in a round, but it seems like there were 5 or 6 on this course where the 1st throw was just a short approach shot, and the 'drive' was on the 2nd throw, without the benefit of a teepad. A couple 1st throws were 200' putter shots. Just rubs me the wrong way I guess. Also seemed like so many of the par 4's looked the same. Just something about the layout was really boring to me.
Just one paying client's opinion though. YMMV.

These types of designs negate some advantages of the elite throwers to defeat the designs where a hole is more open. Dogleg or pinch point holes designs tend to level the playing field so accurate skill becomes more important than power. These holes can sometimes be better for viewers because they can usually tell whether a throw is good or not on screen because the quality of a player's drive may be easier to see without commentators.

 

[Emoney]

This course sucks on so many levels

 

[araytx]

Right, but what happens when somebody compiles a bunch of footage of a player who might have a high tendency of foot faulting? If they complain enough and show proof are you gonna start seeing officials following that player's card?

Easy way to alleviate any situations like that is to play within the rules, but they need to either have a rules official or whatever on every card or none at all.

I have spoken with Jeff Spring last year about the issue. I think he influenced the RC making the rule change so that he & his staff could have this authority since we all know players won't. I wrote about such on these forums when the rule change was made that it won't change us but I'll bet it'll change for the DGPT -- because they have an investment in the viewership. To address your point, my feeling is they don't need to "compile a bunch of footage." Just let him know and he'll have someone from his team on that card, too. He has an interest in his product not deteriorating due to slow play. That's one of the things that has cost baseball fans over the years and he doesn't want that happening to disc golf while it's in its infancy and growing as a spectator sport. And until they can have an official with every group for pro events, I am guessing that's how he'll handle it. But to answer your question, YES, I'm quite sure he would. I don't know, but I am also guessing that he's addressed this very issue with players before the season and at the beginning of the first few tournaments and he told them EXACTLY how he'd handle it. So I also am guessing no one was surprised to see him following that group after people said Nikko was taking too much time (NOTE: I don't know if it was other players, spectators, media crew, whomever. I am just guessing that he was alerted somehow and since he told the players what he'd do before the tournament, he did exactly what he said he would.)

I think we can all agree that inconsistency isn't seen as very professional?

Absolutely. But don't you also agree that it was inconsistent before as well?? So now we're at "which is the better of the two inconsistencies?"

 

[txmxer]

These types of designs negate some advantages of the elite throwers to defeat the designs where a hole is more open. Dogleg or pinch point holes designs tend to level the playing field so accurate skill becomes more important than power. These holes can sometimes be better for viewers because they can usually tell whether a throw is good or not on screen because the quality of a player's drive may be easier to see without commentators.

They actually mentioned this design element on the commentary on DGN.

I didn't pay attention to how many holes have this design, but there were certainly some bomber holes on the front 9.

Isn't this one of the characteristics of a good woods course? Throwing to spot?

 

[Monocacy]

Isn't this one of the characteristics of a good woods course? Throwing to spot?

Characteristic of a good woods course is having to control the entire flight of the disc, not just where it lands. Imo, etc.

 

[txmxer]

Characteristic of a good woods course is having to control the entire flight of the disc, not just where it lands. Imo, etc.

good point.

 

[nothinbuttree]

These types of designs negate some advantages of the elite throwers to defeat the designs where a hole is more open. Dogleg or pinch point holes designs tend to level the playing field so accurate skill becomes more important than power. These holes can sometimes be better for viewers because they can usually tell whether a throw is good or not on screen because the quality of a player's drive may be easier to see without commentators.

No issues with the design element overall, just too much of it. That said, there seems to be a growing emphasis to negate any advantages that 'bombers' have. Why? People love to see epic 600'+ drives. Besides, if that is a skill fewer players possess, seems like a great opportunity for scoring separation. Why negate it at all? Not saying every hole should reward the 600' throwers, but having a few isn't bad. Similarly, the hole designs which reward circle 2 putting ability are great design elements as well. As are those rewarding great turnover/forehand ability, great roller ability, etc.

Seems like there are very few holes, even on the bolf courses, where players can genuinely just grip and rip, with no worries on lines or landing zones/OB. Hole 1 at Emporia is a notable exception, though there is OB left and right there as well.

 

[txmxer]

No issues with the design element overall, just too much of it. That said, there seems to be a growing emphasis to negate any advantages that 'bombers' have. Why? People love to see epic 600'+ drives. Besides, if that is a skill fewer players possess, seems like a great opportunity for scoring separation. Why negate it at all? Not saying every hole should reward the 600' throwers, but having a few isn't bad. Similarly, the hole designs which reward circle 2 putting ability are great design elements as well. As are those rewarding great turnover/forehand ability, great roller ability, etc.

Seems like there are very few holes, even on the bolf courses, where players can genuinely just grip and rip, with no worries on lines or landing zones/OB. Hole 1 at Emporia is a notable exception, though there is OB left and right there as well.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think they are eliminating it as much as they are going for balance. JMO

 

[araytx]

Characteristic of a good woods course is having to control the entire flight of the disc, not just where it lands. Imo, etc.

Correct. But as txmixer said, ONE element is exactly that -- being able to land the disc in a spot. As is your characteristic. He didn't say it was "just" that. You have to have BOTH imho to have a good woods course design

 

[Steve West]

Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think they are eliminating it as much as they are going for balance. JMO

Maybe not even all the way to balance, just trying to keep huge distance from being the ONLY skill needed.

 

[biscoe]

I don't think of this course as a woods course at all...

 

[Spectacledbear]

Another open Meh course...

 

[Spectacledbear]

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