Simons Short massive power

[Sheep]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CcVoamCSCG4

I was trying to watch this video. and..
Just... This drives me nuts, so I made a video on it.

Simons ability to generate so much power with such little form really shows his grasp of technique and timing.

Paul does this same style shot also. But there is more video of Simon doing it, and this whole video he posted is just ... all short shots. But it does have a few key form things in there maybe we can learn from.

Maybe I missed something? maybe I saw something special. I duno.

I used to practice this shot, but I never got the 200+ foot of power he's able to generate.

 

[Waddball]

Drives me nuts as well. I cannot keep my head looking (relatively) forward like that and get the disc to come out straight. I throw well to the right and always on a steep hyzer when I try this shot. And I can sometimes "succeed" but only via playing my slice (so to speak).

And yeah, definitely not that effortless distance.

 

[Sheep]

Drives me nuts as well. I cannot keep my head looking (relatively) forward like that and get the disc to come out straight. I throw well to the right and always on a steep hyzer when I try this shot. And I can sometimes "succeed" but only via playing my slice (so to speak).

And yeah, definitely not that effortless distance.

It's a different style of throw all together.

Watch when he really really really slows it down, he'll throw annies with putters and glide them.
This is how I got my first ace. I used to practice that shot a lot. I dont know why I stopped. I guess excessively overpowered spike hyzers for no reason are more fun. hahaha

 

[seedlings]

Simon, win or lose, is my favorite to watch throw the disc. You're right that Paul can do all those shots… but something feels different. Paul seems more cerebral/intentional and Simon seems more natural/afterthought. You said it well that Simon isn't thinking a whip about any part of his form, just watching the disc follow a line in his vision.

At the end of the day, I would bet Paul is overall more accurate.

If I could do any video I wanted, I would put Simon v Paul on a three round tournament against each other on a moderately challenging par3 course like this, but not tell them the criteria on which they'll be judged. After 3 rounds, go back and compare CTP/aces/lines hit successfully as the score. Watch body language after every shot and if they were completely happy with the throw AND the result, that's a point.

Yes, that's pie in the sky thinking. The closest was the terrific video where they told each other which lines to throw. Simon was like, 'just that? That's all?' And Paul was like, 'seriously? Why?'

 

[Sheep]

Yes, that's pie in the sky thinking. The closest was the terrific video where they told each other which lines to throw. Simon was like, 'just that? That's all?' And Paul was like, 'seriously? Why?'

That was honestly one of the best video's ever done on disc golf.

The other thing that people dont realize about Simon is he has a gift for seeing things others dont.

The Simon lines are not him going "lets try this dumb stuff."

I see SO many lines that other players dont, because my main goal when playing is fun. I think that is a huge part of Simons game and gift.

He see's things others dont because he's really aware of everything going on. He feels natural and in his element so to speak.
Paul is very robotic in comparison.

I see the simon lines, I see them ALL the time. I see all sorts of things other players dont, because I'm looking for things to try to challenge myself further vs throwing a boring shot down the middle.

I'd love to just play a round with Simon to just throw the dumbest shots on every hole.

Simon, "Dude, its 120 feet, you're throwing a roller?"
Yeah.
"Oh, I gotta try that now"

That sorta stuff.
I just wish I had his accuracy and power to back it up. But man, when I hit those lines when I throw those really crazy ones. It just makes me fall in love with the game again.


From another standpoint as well, Envisioning a line in your head of where you want the disc to go, or even verbally talking it can make all the difference.

A lot of times I plan my apex more than anything.
But that was a Paul tip from a video he did and it made more sense to me than almost all advice other players give. Because its one of the most important parts of the flight. Where the disc does things that are more out of your control.

 

[BillFleming]

He see's things others dont because he's really aware of everything going on. He feels natural and in his element so to speak.

One of the best examples of a Simon line is the 2017 Jonesboro Open, Hole 11. Find it on Jomez. The hole is a dogleg left around trees. Simon throws sideways off the tee pad over the adjoining fairway. Other players catch on to it and start doing it, so on the third round the TD had to create a mando to keep players from taking that route (for player's safety on the adjoining hole). Only Simon was 'able' to see that route the first round and then others copied him.

I've learned from that that the obvious direction to the fairway/basket isn't always the best. But while I have to work to find the best line for me....it just seems to come natural to Simon.

 

[ray1970]

I think Simon's biggest advantage and what makes it look so effortless is that he's been playing disc golf for like twenty-five years and having just turned thirty years old he's physically still in his prime. Eagle has the same sort of thing going for him as well- youth combined with years of experience.

 

[sidewinder22]

I think Simon's biggest advantage and what makes it look so effortless is that he's been playing disc golf for like twenty-five years and having just turned thirty years old he's physically still in his prime. Eagle has the same sort of thing going for him as well- youth combined with years of experience.

I think that a lifetime of physically conditioning/motor skill is a big reason he can do that, also helps to have longer levers.

Someone can learn that motor skill, but they won't be close to Simon's ability for many years.

 

[Sheep]

this was posted in the comments.

10 hours ago
In these touch shots, Simon shifts into the brace instead of planting then pulling against. Magnificent

 

[GripEnemy]

The closest was the terrific video where they told each other which lines to throw. Simon was like, 'just that? That's all?' And Paul was like, 'seriously? Why?'

That was honestly one of the best video's ever done on disc golf.

Link?

 

[timothy42b]

Think it was this one:

 

[ray1970]

The video where Paul and Simon swapped bags was pretty epic too.

https://youtu.be/qXwPbueJyNY

 

[Sheep]

Think it was this one:

The best part is simon is like "i'd throw this really dumb shot over this for no reason because it looks good and works for me..." and you can just see paul inside going "good lord, really?" hahahaha

 

[Brychanus]

Think it was this one:

The best part is simon is like "i'd throw this really dumb shot over this for no reason because it looks good and works for me..." and you can just see paul inside going "good lord, really?" hahahaha

My favorite little "longtime buds ribbing each other" moment is when Simon starts talking about using spike hyzers for distance control. Paul just smiles and shakes his head knowingly and disapprovingly. It's like he's just starting to realize what the rest of his round will be like.


On-topic: one of the issues solving the throw "scaling" problem for shorter distances is keeping the whole chain intact over the smaller shift and range of motion. You can see pros doing it clearly in Overthrow's Lizotte or Gibson montages.

I'm finding that the Door Frame Drills [1 2 3] are extremely useful for training this scaling. Find the appropriate backswing height where you find leverage, then load yourself by striding past the door frame to achieve however whatever size weight shift you need for the throw. The frame helps teach your whole body the correct scaling for the distance and posture for the backswing load for any given weight shift since it won't move. They're doing the same thing by "leaving the disc behind."

 

[Sheep]

My favorite little "longtime buds ribbing each other" moment is when Simon starts talking about using spike hyzers for distance control. Paul just smiles and shakes his head knowingly and disapprovingly. It's like he's just starting to realize what the rest of his round will be like.

But hyzers are actually a really good way to control your distance.
It's easier to control where the disc apexes and fades in.
Vs throwing straight at the basket trying to control a whole lot more things at once.

Both shots are effective, and both has their pros and cons.
So I choose appropriately to the situation as well.

The error on a hyzer coming in is going to be far different than a shot at the basket with, lets say no fade.
It could skip 50-80 passed.
It could stop early and not skip at all.

*shrugs*

I think a lot of it comes down to the player type here, and choosing whats right for the situation.
As well as how well your short game control is for the day.

So I'd not hardline on "hyzer isnt the right shot" but.. yeah, I think ya'll get it.