Ski Hill Courses....be honest

[optidiscic]

Lest I be targeted as a hater

PROS

Majestic Views

learn more about your discs as wind speeds or slows your disc down and elevation allows for the full flightpath of your disc to be enjoyed

well designed courses have great use of elevation as punishment which makes throws across hills and over valleys more exciting...it's not all about the big throws

It's different

you get a workout

 

[deBebbler]

I think a ski course is as good or as bad as the thought put into it. There are a lot of factors that can make it an awesome course which could, with the wrong vision, make it a really chitty course.

Very very true. Sometimes the abundance of paths, elevation changes and such, seem to overwhelm the designer and they end up making poor choices, where as when the land is much flatter, they are more conscientious due to the lack of options, and make better choices.

 

[optidiscic]

The tropical storm reference was in regards to the random gusts I have experienced on eastern and western mountains that gust randomly here and there that overpower a well thrown disc......particularly troublesome when your disc is in the air 5-15 seconds and at some point a gust changes direction or plays havoc.....thats what I meant by that comment.....a 10-15 mph gust on a mountain performs as much more powerful as it has more pressure exerting as it rises or descends on the mountain. Throw in the increased understability on true western mt courses and youre really talking about adjustments. Again not exactly my cup of tea...interesting but to me not the type of DG experience I prefer.

 

[optidiscic]

Very very true. Sometimes the abundance of paths, elevation changes and such, seem to overwhelm the designer and they end up making poor choices, where as when the land is much flatter, they are more conscientious due to the lack of options, and make better choices.

exactly....very good point

 

[deBebbler]

Lest I be targeted as a hater

PROS

Majestic Views

learn more about your discs as wind speeds or slows your disc down and elevation allows for the full flightpath of your disc to be enjoyed

well designed courses have great use of elevation as punishment which makes throws across hills and over valleys more exciting...it's not all about the big throws

It's different

you get a workout

All very true. You pretty much summed up why I like them.

It's happening more and more now that global warming has shortened winters and ski hill owners are scrambling to pull year round cash.

I'm not sure which part of this statement is more misguided.

Our ski season in 2008-2009 was long as hell. Shortened winters (which are no shorter now, than they were 25 years ago when I was a kid skiing these hills) aren't what is making ski hills hurt, it is onerous property taxes and skyrocketing liability insurance. Besides, none of the ski hills around here charge for rounds, save if you want a ride up the hill. So this is hardly a big revenue generating enterprise for the ski hills.

But, whatever. I like the thread, and I'm glad you posted.

 

[NateDiscFlip]

Hickory Hills #19

Thought course was fun, and worth the drive. Definitely a must if you stop by Traverse City, MI...as with playing the other courses in the area.

I hear one of the best course...Timberlee...was one of the best courses in Michigan which started as a ski hill. Apparently, the grounds were sold to a developer for condos.

Play them if you can, cause they may be gone.

 

[deBebbler]

The tropical storm reference was in regards to the random gusts I have experienced on eastern and western mountains that gust randomly here and there that overpower a well thrown disc......particularly troublesome when your disc is in the air 5-15 seconds and at some point a gust changes direction or plays havoc.....thats what I meant by that comment.....a 10-15 mph gust on a mountain performs as much more powerful as it has more pressure exerting as it rises or descends on the mountain. Throw in the increased understability on true western mt courses and youre really talking about adjustments. Again not exactly my cup of tea...interesting but to me not the type of DG experience I prefer.

Yessir. It's a bitch when it happens.

I wasn't thinking of western mountain courses in this thread, though, when I saw you were form Pennsylvania. I've never had the chance to play any of those, and I'm sure they put my courses to shame.

 

[deBebbler]

Thought course was fun, and worth the drive. Definitely a must if you stop by Traverse City, MI...as with playing the other courses in the area.

I hear one of the best course...Timberlee...was one of the best courses in Michigan which started as a ski hill. Apparently, the grounds were sold to a developer for condos.

Play them if you can, cause they may be gone.

Timberlee was the best. I miss it so.

Hickory is a great course, and #19 rocks (and actually ranks up with optidiscs point of awful times when you lose a disc) but that course was a total ponce compared to Timberlee. I think #24 was 875' summit to foot of the hill.

Par 3, of course.

 

[volklgirl]

More and more ski areas are adding disc golf as a low cost option to draw families to the areas in the summer time. They're learning that for financial viability in the summer, it can no longer just be golf oriented...they're also adding alpine coasters, mountain biking, climbing walls, outdoor movie screens, and water parks to keep families at the resort and spending time and money.

As with a course set on any type of property; it is what the designer makes of it. A badly designed course sucks whether it be on a ski hill or not, and vice-versa for a well-designed course.

That said, I LOVE the elevation changes inherent in ski hill courses, both for the work out and for the variety, options, and challenge it adds to the design. So far I've played Boyne Mountain, Crystal Mountain, Silver Mountain, Hickory Hills, and Mt Holiday, while Shanty Creek and Beaver Creek CO are on my to-do list. While I may curse the calf cramps during the climbs, I just keep in mind that I'm building my "ski legs" for the winter, and I never fail to be awestruck by the views and the unique holes that can be created.

 

[deBebbler]

That said, I LOVE the elevation changes inherent in ski hill courses, both for the work out and for the variety, options, and challenge it adds to the design. So far I've played Boyne Mountain, Crystal Mountain, Silver Mountain, Hickory Hills, and Mt Holiday, while Shanty Creek and Beaver Creek CO are on my to-do list. While I may curse the calf cramps during the climbs, I just keep in mind that I'm building my "ski legs" for the winter, and I never fail to be awestruck by the views and the unique holes that can be created.

Don't get too excited for Shanty Creek. Definitely a Barbrady course (nothing to see here.) You still need to play Hanson Hills in Grayling, tho.

Working on a new one right now in Harbor Springs. Will have more info Monday after the city council meeting.

Didn't you play Avalanche Park too? I seem to remember you didn't like it (and you are right.)

 

[volklgirl]

Don't get too excited for Shanty Creek. Definitely a Barbrady course (nothing to see here.) You still need to play Hanson Hills in Grayling, tho.

Good to know. I keep forgetting about Hanson, but I'm sure I'll get to it as I ride out there a couple times a year.

Working on a new one right now in Harbor Springs. Will have more info Monday after the city council meeting.

Cool, keep us updated! Where is it?

Didn't you play Avalanche Park too? I seem to remember you didn't like it (and you are right.)

The holes themselves at Avalanche are well designed, but the course as a whole is a great example of bad utilization of the property available.

 

[DannyM]

Although I've never had the opportunity to play any Ski Resort courses, as I live in the Southeast, I would think that there would be the possibility of having a great course from it. But if and only if, you have someone design the course who is an avid DG'er. If you just have someone come in and out a few random holes in on the property, then yeah, I could see it being a bomb. If you utilize the terrain, have some open downhill bombs, AND have some tight, short technical holes in some wooded sections, then yes, it could be a great course. It's just like any other disc golf course, if it is planned well, and designed well then ususally it turns out to be a good course.
I did get to go to a ski resort 1 time in the early 90's during the summertime, but it wasn't for disc golf, it was for cross country ATV racing. One year Winterplace in WV, allowed the GNCC to hold an event at the facility during the summer to try and get some revenue in during the "off-season". From a racer's standpoint it was a fantastic time, but I'd think for the landowner it wouldn't be because of the ruts that were put in all over. I do remember how beautiful it did look though!

 

[superberry]

This is one of my top 10 courses and I hope to play it again this summer. It's a ski/sledding facility, but only a small fraction is actually played on the slopes. Very good use of the available land.

cy, hopefully you can play Winter Park again and check out the new Gold tees we have installed which add some par 4 elements to the amazing balance the course offers.

 

[superberry]

By my own admission, I love ski hill courses and courses with extreme changes in elevation. I play ski hill courses all the time, and honestly they mostly suck because the designers are just the inexperienced workers on site who happen to play disc golf but no nothing of design standards or variety and balance. Most ski hill courses just play up and down the runs. In order to do my own comparisons of the two Winter Parks I played Winter Park in Colorado - it was awful. Purely just thrown in for the summer season and with little thought for longevity and being a disc golf must play destination course. It's not that I didn't love flinging discs for 1000' feet downhill, but everything else about the course was awful. At winter park in Kewaunee you don't play any ski hills liek in the mountains, just some sledding runs carved into the steep edges of a river valley. And in addition, those edges of the river valley have drainage creeks flowing into the river which carve extremely sharp gulleys and washouts through a wooded paradise for a disc golf adventure worth your trip from anywhere.

 

[NateDiscFlip]

Timberlee was the best. I miss it so.

Hickory is a great course, and #19 rocks (and actually ranks up with optidiscs point of awful times when you lose a disc) but that course was a total ponce compared to Timberlee. I think #24 was 875' summit to foot of the hill.

Par 3, of course.

My buddy already runs his mouth nonstop about discgolf...and he made sure we took the history lesson about timberlee.....i can only imagine, but have seen a couple of pics

 

[bpatton]

Thought course was fun, and worth the drive. Definitely a must if you stop by Traverse City, MI...as with playing the other courses in the area.

I hear one of the best course...Timberlee...was one of the best courses in Michigan which started as a ski hill. Apparently, the grounds were sold to a developer for condos.

Play them if you can, cause they may be gone.

I have only played two ski hill courses in 12 years of disc, Timberlee an Targahee National Forest in Wyoming. Despite have a real mountain range at Targahee, Timberlee was way sweeter. I lived in Traverse for about 2 months in 2000 and played that course almost every day. That course is still my number one favorite and I have played Flip and the Ludington courses, as well as Idlewild. I am pretty sure that last hole was much longer than 875', too. It was from the top of the hill to the parking lot.

That sign pointing the way to the next hole after you finish playing the base of the hill was classic. "UP" and an arrow that lead to an area with a picnic table that was only halfway up. Made you think you had made it to the tee... only to realize you had another 1/4 mile hike up the hill! I wish it was still there. I was heartbroken to learn that it was gone.

It was in such a weird location(right in the middle of a subdivision). I think they run tubes down it in the winter now. I looked up timberlee on google and they have a website for tubing. What a freaking waste.

 

[bpatton]

My buddy already runs his mouth nonstop about discgolf...and he made sure we took the history lesson about timberlee.....i can only imagine, but have seen a couple of pics

I have had fights with people about the existence of Timberlee. They always think I am talking about Hickory Hills, which I have not played. There is not a great record of the course, unless you know someone who has played there.

 

[Martin Dewgarita]

Just played Hyland today, wow, I'm not sure what to think - this is the only ski hill course i've played, it kicked my butt - not very technical shots, mostly wide open big arm throws, and crazy elevation. One thing is for sure, if I played this course more often i'd be in much better shape and about 50 lbs lighter. I hit metal on hole 18 (there were witnesses, I would have gotten signatures in the event of an ace on that one), it would have been an incredible first ace at 710 feet! I would probably play more often if they allowed dogs, I had to make a special no dog road trip for that one, poor Forest didn't get to play today.

 

[deBebbler]

My buddy already runs his mouth nonstop about discgolf...and he made sure we took the history lesson about timberlee.....i can only imagine, but have seen a couple of pics

His name wouldn't happen to be John, would it?

 

[deBebbler]

Cool, keep us updated! Where is it?

Kiwanis Park in Harbor Springs. The front 9 follow an old YMCA training course, with 9 being the 510' downhill bomber, and the back 9 through some less traveled area. Will be shorter, tighter in the trees. Kind of like Log Lake Park with elevation changes, and I actually mean that in a good way.

We had limited space to work with, but I think we did a good job. I'm gathering the all of the final data and I will post it under courses in development after the meeting monday night.

The holes themselves at Avalanche are well designed, but the course as a whole is a great example of bad utilization of the property available.

Oh, yeah. That's so right, you can say it twice.

However, I love playing that course. Don't know what it is, but after I played it for the first time in 2002, I was hooked.

Have been talking to some folks who say they are working on a redesign. It sounds good, in theory, but I'm not holding my breath, though.