Skill Gap

[AndyJB]

Not sure If this really belonged here or in the Tournament section, but since it does somewhat involve strategy, I'll post it here.

This last weekend I played the Phenix One Day Series (PODS) in Denver, CO. I played in Rec, and won in a field of four players. I won by 14 throws, but my two rounds are only un-officially rated at an 877 and an 850, still well within the MA3 ratings range. This year, I've been dabbling in moving up to MA2, while still playing a few MA3. So far I've played two tournaments in MA3 (taking 3rd and 1st) and two in MA2 (taking 28th and 24th in obviously bigger fields.)

Now that I've won in MA3, even with two frankly quite low - rated rounds, it's tough to justify to myself continuing to play in MA3. For what it's worth, there was no calls of "bagger" when I won this last weekend, even with the large lead I had. Most of this is that we had a great group of players, and some of it had to do with the fact that I would have taken 12th out of 15th had I played in MA2.

I've already signed up for next months PODS in MA2. It's at the same course, and I know what I need to work on to improve my score. My goal is to finish in the top ten. If not, I won't be stressed in the slightest. I don't play for merch bucks (I used my scrip at PODS to buy two discs and an Axiom mini for my daughter) and am of the belief that disc golf should move towards "true amateur" events with trophy-only.

So after all this background, I'm wondering about the skill gap. I've been playing for a long time, and I dedicate a lot of my not - so - ample free time to improving my game. However, I seem to be mired in the "unable to break 900 rating" club. On these forums, it is often advised to move up divisions to play against better competition. I see the merit in this, as I usually tend to play better my first round in MA2. After that, however, I find myself on the lower (or lowest) cards with guys like me who moved up. Then it turns into basically just another rec card, with us missing easy putts, shaking drives, eating OB and all the other travails that come along with our level or play in a tournament setting.

As the season winds down for me (in the middle of August I leave for a month to go to Advanced Leaders Course, an Army a school and will miss the last CO sanctioned events of the year) I have my eyes firmly set on next season. With the noted skill gap, I am left to wonder what strategy to use next year: do as I have done this year wherein I play MA3 at a few events, and MA 2 at others; wholly abandon MA3 for good and use 2015 as a season spent only playing higher than my rating in an attempt to continue to improve; or, perhaps the least desire able to my ego, say "damn the torpedos" and just strictly play my rating, wins be buggered?

I could list the pros and cons of each of those three decisions, but I'd rather have feedback from the DGCR community, fully accepting that a degree of snark will be utilized in the responses.

So what say you, DGCR? Have any of you faced this sort of dillema? How did you handle it? Did your course of action lead to your desired goals in your desired time frame?

 

[bradharris]

I think you're overthinking it way too much. Just play where you're most comfortable. Your rating says you can play Am 3, so no one can fault you for staying there.

I think the actual benefits of playing against better competition are somewhat overblown, especially when you just end up grouped with players at similar skill levels for round 2 anyway.

 

[Truschioni]

I am facing the very same situation in Am2, considering moving up to Am1. I havent won an Am2 tourney but usually finish Top Card first round and end up in top 5 or so at the end. Coming in 2nd in two tournies. I have personally decided to play Am1 the rest of the year in order to play at a higher level. When I play at a higher level, I think about my shots more because I know i cant afford to lose any strokes. I know what level I can play at, and if i perform at that level I should be competitive in Am1. In one tourney I shot the best golf of my life, but someone who usually plays pro decided to make a statement and played am2 that weekend and he beat me by 6 strokes. I was 3 under course par for the day and shouldve easily won that one lol.

So I would recommend moving into Am2, i am a firm believer that you play to the level of your opponents. Knowing that you need to play well to win a division makes you change your game during tourney play. You think what is most of my field going to take on this hole, if you're playing rec it will be different than am2 and your shots will be better.

 

[Truschioni]

Your rating says you can play Am 3, so no one can fault you for staying there.

Ratings say a 935 rated golfer can play Am2, doesnt mean they should... I think the rating brackets are flawed majorly. No way they are accurate for New England Disc Golfers

 

[Aim For The Chains]

I think the actual benefits of playing against better competition are somewhat overblown, especially when you just end up grouped with players at similar skill levels for round 2 anyway.

interesting perspective-- what parts do you feel are overblown in regards to people always suggesting to do this?

 

[BogeyNoMore]

The ratings are a guide, and I could be wrong, but I have a feeling player ratings in a given division may vary a bit on a regional basis... even if theoretically they shouldn't. If playing MA3 isn't competitive for you, see how things go in MA2 and go from there. If you're not getting trounced, and you like the competetion better, then good for you. If you're getting trounced , then go back to MA3.
That's really the only way you'll be able to make an informed decision.

Might also help to play a tourney that's say an hour's drive away on a course you're a little familiar with... you might find the competition within divisions line up closer to the numerical guidelines.

 

[AndyJB]

Maybe I'm making pressure for myself. So far I've never had someone directly or indirectly tell me to move up, but my aforementioned ego leads me to think that someone who is as involved in the sport as I am, and has been playing as long as I have, really has no business in the lowest division (I understand that MA2 exists, but I've never seen it offered.)

My goal is to get better. I'm just not sure which strategy leads me to it, from a competitive standpoint. Putting practice and field work are all well and good, and their benefits cannot be denied, but I also feel the only way to get better in a competitive setting is to play in competition.

 

[DikkaD]

Bagger, Rec players shouldn't review discs. Especially long winded ones.

 

[AndyJB]

The ratings are a guide, and I could be wrong, but I have a feeling player ratings in a given division may vary a bit on a regional basis... even if theoretically they shouldn't. If playing MA3 isn't competitive for you, see how things go in MA2 and go from there. If you're not getting trounced, and you like the competetion better, then good for you. If you're getting trounced , then go back to MA3.
That's really the only way you'll be able to make an informed decision.

Might also help to play a tourney that's say an hour's drive away on a course you;'re a little familiar with... you might find the competetion within divisions line up closes to the numerical guidelines.

That's what I've been doing. I've been getting slaughtered in MA2, but I also have yet to finish DFL and am usually beating at least four people.

As for the course familiarity, that's what I did at PODS. I've only played that course a handful of times but each one has been a tournament. Not that the other players weren't familiar with the course, but I found myself executing shots near the best of my ability. Which would have put me in 12th in MA2...or would it? Perhaps I would have executed even better? I will find out for sure next month at PODS

 

[BogeyNoMore]

interesting perspective-- what parts do you feel are overblown in regards to people always suggesting to do this?

I think his point is that it's overblown because theoretically, you're only playing one round against better competition. Once they re-seed based on the 1st round scores, everyone's playing with people who play about as well as they do. Most people really don't benefit by playing aginst stiffer competition when they're playing three holes away. You benefit from having to step up to beat the people on your card... at least that's how I see it.

 

[Horsman]

Play where you are comfortable

 

[E_Rock25]

IMO defiantly play MA2 at least.... I am 900 rated and play MA1 because of the extra challenge and the fact that im not really trying to win as much as better my own game.

Last weekend I decided to play MA2 and placed 7th if I would have played MA1 i would have taken 4th hahahahah

 

[Horsman]

I think his point is that it's overblown because theoretically, you're only playing one round against better competition. Once they re-seed based on the 1st round scores, everyone's playing with people who play about as well as they do. Most people really don't benefit by playing aginst stiffer competition when they're playing three holes away. You benefit from having to step up to beat the people on your card... at least that's how I see it.

But there are plenty of times when 2 round you get carded with someone a lot better than you because the lower rated player played really well or the great player played horrible.

 

[bradharris]

Ratings say a 935 rated golfer can play Am2, doesnt mean they should... I think the rating brackets are flawed majorly. No way they are accurate for New England Disc Golfers

There are definitely regional differences. I'm 931 and I have played and been competitive in Am 1 in New England. But when I've tried to play Am 1 in NY or DE, I was fighting to stay out of DFL.

I even won Am 1 a couple weeks ago averaging 934 rated rounds.

I think a lot of that is simply because there's not a lot of talent at the top locally. We have a very small handful of 1000 rated players and they're very spread out. So a lot of the guys that would play Am 1 elsewhere step up to Open because they actually can be competitive there. All lower divisions then tend to follow suit.

interesting perspective-- what parts do you feel are overblown in regards to people always suggesting to do this?

A couple reasons:

1. After round 1, you're going to end up with players at a similar level to you anyway.
2. If you're getting beaten too badly, it can have a negative impact by destroying your confidence.
3. You're not competing directly against the others in your division. It's still you vs the course. It's not like say basketball or tennis where better competition will force you to find new ways to win.
4. Related to #3, you can still see how you stack up against other divisions (assuming you play the same layout), so although you don't sign up for the higher division, you can still "compete" against those guys.
5. One of the bigger perceived benefits of playing up is just being able to see how better players attack the course. If you're really that set on improving by observing, sit the tournament out and spectate instead.

 

[E_Rock25]

The amount of players between 875 and 935 is crazy. To be honest the gap is not that big at all. It can be just a few strokes at the end of the day. That is the other reason I play up. Playing down only sets you up to play worse IMHO.

 

[HyzerUniBomber]

Regardless of what level you want to play at - I suggest playing tags as much as possible. MHDG is full of great players and there's way more chances to play regularly in a competitive environment that will help your mental game for real tournaments. It also is great for shaking off a bad round, bad shot, bad decision when you can just play another tags match the next day (if you wanted to). You go into a tournament feeling like you were just in a tournament (the last tags match the day before!) that had as many people at it.

Which leads me to my next thing... if really want to improve and move up, playing with better players is by far the best thing that I've ever done for my game. Seeing what a solid 40' putt looks like, over and over - that doesn't end up 30' past the basket... it just starts to rub off. Seeing what can be done with a driving putter or a mid, instead of a going for my driver on a 275-300' shot... suddenly you're making better decisions.

Feel free to hit me up anytime... I am probably not the type of player I'd suggest learning from... but I play with many guys that are.

 

[Pwingles]

Play bigger tiered events. 900 will come easier

 

[AndyJB]

I wish I lived closer to Denver. Here in the Springs the club members can be...unwelcoming, to say the least.

 

[Rockwell]

Decide which you enjoy more for this tournament season:
Trying to Beat people you should beat, or Trying to beat people that are ranked higher than you. Both are skills and both can be practiced depending on the size of the tournaments you enter.

Also, try to befriend some good players in your area and play casual practice rounds with them. Good way to see how they practice and the decisions they make.

 

[AndyJB]

Good point Rockwell. But, in theory, should I expect to win as an 833 rated player in Rec? It's a tough call because a lot of times Rec is the place where non rated players are. But moving up I'm for sure outgunned. It seems to be somewhat split on whether moving up really helps. I still have a few more tourneys this season (rocky mountain state games, August PODS and the Denver Classic) to kind of test my skill and see. I think I'll play MA2 for the rest of the year and compare the results of MA3 at those events to see how I would have done.

Winning by 14 strokes isn't that great, honestly. I did play well (for me) and the separation between 2nd and 3rd and 3rd and 4th were pretty big as well, but what I'm starting to think is that's more of an indicator that I should move up, because an easy win says I'm not competiting against anyone who is a true threat. Even though the guy who took second beat me earlier this year.

I think, all in all, I'm more comfortable in MA2. Even if I'm getting smoked, in some ways that's more fun because then I can just relax and throw, instead of worrying about trying to place.