Something that really could hold disc golf back...

[dashiellx]

Update

Appears the group is still working towards getting the course in the ground.

 

[Tfire25]

They really are opening a can of worms with this one. I hope they can work it out and I appreciate the updates.

This could be the biggest killer this sport has ever seen. If the government starts looking at the bridges and such that we use.........

I don't think it would be unfeasible to make a loop on new courses that could be accessible but its all about money. We get a lot of courses put in because we get the flood zones and its cheap. If the city's start having to shell out thousands it will stunt our growth for sure.

I hope they come up with something reasonable for both parties but it is the government we are talking about.

 

[BirdieMachine]

The only thing the Gov is good at is spending money recklessly and imposing ridiculous laws.

 

[Chainsgoching]

HEAR HEAR :hfive:

 

[chainedwraith]

My home course is in a 100 acre wilderness park with no park amenities other than disc golf. Dirt road access only, but when you drive down the dirt road into the park you will find random nice smooth concrete areas with 2 handicap parking spots at each. When you finally reach the disc golf course area there are 2 more nicely paved handicap spots. We have to drive over the nice pavement and then back off the pavement and park in the shell rock / dirt area NEXT to the nice parking spots. Yep, thats right.. only if you are handicap are you allowed to park on pavement. So, no electricity, running water, no legit parking areas for non-handicap folk or any other amenities. Just 100 acres of swampy woods, a great disc golf course that is certainly not ADA compliant, and random handicap spots throughout the park.

We often wonder.. are the handicap spots so people can park there, get their wheelchair out and just sit and observe nature? That's the only thing I can come up with because I can't see them being able to drive their wheelchairs off the parking areas.. so basically they are bound to stay right with their vehicles. In over 5 years, I've never seen a car parked in a handicap spot in the park and I'm there 3-5 days per week.

So we asked the city about it. They said the park has to be ADA compliant so they had to put in those parking spots even though nothing in the park is considered wheelchair accessible. Then in that same discussion, they approved our recent non-ADA compliant bridge over a creek that floods and we went on with our business. weird..

 

[NCK1990]

The Feds can go to hell!!!!!!!

 

[sidewinder22]

Im impressed:

 

[Shipley]

We are definately looking at a sport killer here. /rolls eyes
opcorn:

 

[Tfire25]

We are definately looking at a sport killer here. /rolls eyes
opcorn:

I don't think you understand the situation fully, or you simply don't grasp how powerful the Ada is.

They could come into any dg park built after (I don't recall the date the rules changed) and make the city comply with the rules. The city would have to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on one course alone. Or they could just pull the course.

I don't think that will happen but it's a very possible scenario. What will most likely happen is a certain percentage of holes will have to meet requirements. For instance, if two bathrooms are available, only one has to be accessible. That is not a sport killer but it does add significant cost.

 

[Shipley]

I don't think you understand the situation fully, or you simply don't grasp how powerful the Ada is.

They could come into any dg park built after (I don't recall the date the rules changed) and make the city comply with the rules. The city would have to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on one course alone. Or they could just pull the course.

I don't think that will happen but it's a very possible scenario. What will most likely happen is a certain percentage of holes will have to meet requirements. For instance, if two bathrooms are available, only one has to be accessible. That is not a sport killer but it does add significant cost.

I'm aware of the Americans With Disabilities Act, and I completely understand the brevity of the issue at hand.

I still don't believe it's going to hold disc golf back.

 

[Star Shark]

Chavez Ridge here in LA is supposedly ADA Compliant, which if you've ever been there is utter nonsense. About 80 percent of the course is side hill lie. So unless you put all of your shots on the path with no roll aways, you're going up to 300' down a steep grade to go get it. Also note, the course is fairly well wooded, so you have to miss a bunch of trees as well.

 

[scarpfish]

I really wonder how many non-DG things have this same conundrum about possibly not being ADA compliant, but don't get too worried about potential consequences because they don't have a serial litigant and an ambulance chasing attorney on their behinds.

Seems when an ADA matter comes to attention, its usually only when that happens, which is why I'm not so worried about this affecting anything around here.

 

[DiscFifty]

I don't think elevation is really that important for disc golf anyway. I see nothing wrong with relatively flat courses with trees, a few water hazards, some clever mandos, why not add sand traps to disc golf as well? All that would still make a good challenge and easily ada compliant.

 

[davetherocketguy]

I don't think elevation is really that important for disc golf anyway. I see nothing wrong with relatively flat courses with trees, a few water hazards, some clever mandos, why not add sand traps to disc golf as well? All that would still make a good challenge and easily ada compliant.

 

[reposado]

I don't think elevation is really that important for disc golf anyway. I see nothing wrong with relatively flat courses with trees, a few water hazards, some clever mandos, why not add sand traps to disc golf as well? All that would still make a good challenge and easily ada compliant.

perhaps a few windmills and maybe a clown's face as well

 

[DiscFifty]

lol.. wait... I guess the jokes on me, but I'm not talking about making "every course" like this..just courses that are in the initial process of getting approved where being ada compliant would be mandatory.

"I don't think elevation is really that important for disc golf anyway."

ah..I see the potential for flamage...lol... yah..that was kind of ridiculous since some of my favorite courses to play in the dfw area (Bicentennial, Turner) have a bunch of elevation changes. But I was just focused on the issue of "if it had to be ada compliant" you could still make a challenging, fun, course without elevation changes. But...you know like the sand trap idea?

 

[DavidSauls]

Assuming by ADA-compliant we mean wheelchair-accessible, a sand trap seems like a bad joke.

But manufactured O.B. and casual relief areas (such as BunCRs), similar to roped O.B., would be useful.

 

[DiscFifty]

Assuming by ADA-compliant we mean wheelchair-accessible, a sand trap seems like a bad joke.

Agreed. Note to self: Stop reading (and replying to) forums at 6:00am when you haven't had any sleep. Jeesh...

 

[joegraham]

Chavez Ridge here in LA is supposedly ADA Compliant, which if you've ever been there is utter nonsense. About 80 percent of the course is side hill lie. So unless you put all of your shots on the path with no roll aways, you're going up to 300' down a steep grade to go get it. Also note, the course is fairly well wooded, so you have to miss a bunch of trees as well.

The path through the course is ADA compliant. No more than one foot of elevation for every 10 feet. That's all that matters having a compliant route.

 

[davetherocketguy]

The path through the course is ADA compliant. No more than one foot of elevation for every 10 feet. That's all that matters having a compliant route.

Um...no. Here is a tidy little page outlining the requirements for ADA compliance for trails and the like:

http://www.americantrails.org/resources/accessible/ADASummFeb00.html

These are the same standards for sidewalks and anywhere else there needs to be wheelchair access. Slope percent is defined as rise/fall divided by run. So 1' divided by 10' is 10% slope. You can have 10% slope but for only 30' and then you need to have a landing slope which at a minimum is something like a 5'x5' area with no cross slope greater than 2% - or something like that. Not only that but you cannot have more than 30% of your trail greater than 8.33% slope. Good luck with that.

If you want an idea of just how hard it is going to be to make a course ADA compliant go out with a 4' level and a ruler. On the uphill side of the level place it on the ground and then hold the level...level. On the other end slide the ruler down until it touches the ground and see how many inches that is from the bottom of the level to the ground. Say it's 6" and your level is 48" long that means 6/48 = 12.5%. If you have a lot of money to burn another option is to buy a "smart" level for a mere $150 which you just set on the ground and it will give you a read out of the slope in terms of percent, In/Ft or degrees.

I think I have stated this before but I have 15 years of experience as a construction inspector on municipal construction projects trying to shoe-horn in these requirements on many different kinds of projects. To say it is a PITA is a colossal understatement. This stuff is not easy to build so as a result it can be VERY expensive which is why this could be bad news for any new courses being installed. I don't think some of you are getting this concept. :doh:

I feel bad for those that are in wheel chairs - I really do but these nitwits that come up with these requirements have nary a clue about anything regarding civil engineering and the cost they are causing to taxpayers.