Straight & Flat Swing Plane Does Not Exist!

[sidewinder22]

I think either the body starts recoiling forward internally to the extended arm, and/or the arm recoils internally back around the body/butt.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7dz49D5-4tQ#t=32s

 

[sidewinder22]

 

[RFrance]

New video from Steve Pratt showing how he uses external rotation/supination to use centrifugal force to swing the forearm wider and throw out. I didn't pick up on what he was doing at first but you can see it specifically at https://youtu.be/j84dgNeRvmM?t=164 and at even better at the end https://youtu.be/j84dgNeRvmM?t=612.

 

[deyo7]

New video from Steve Pratt showing how he uses external rotation/supination to use centrifugal force to swing the forearm wider and throw out. I didn't pick up on what he was doing at first but you can see it specifically at https://youtu.be/j84dgNeRvmM?t=164 and at even better at the end https://youtu.be/j84dgNeRvmM?t=612.

Seeing this also reminds me of that trainer contraption/device that you made. Could one use it to aid in training this to muscle memory? Have you found the device helpful regardless?

 

[RFrance]

Seeing this also reminds me of that trainer contraption/device that you made. Could one use it to aid in training this to muscle memory? Have you found the device helpful regardless?

Yes, I think you could definitely use the wrist snapper (https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3536413) for training muscle memory. The feedback you get is both the sound and the feel when the bolt hits the end cap. I can definitely tell when the hit is a little early or late. I just tried using the subination and it almost feels like the bolt hits a little harder, of course we know feel isn't necessarily real. I carry a wrist snapper in my bag to kind of warm up before a round or as a test swing on the tee. The click/snap/pop it makes is pretty loud.

 

[ballgolfconvert]

I have discovered you don't pull it back on the line the disc starts. You need to pull it back on the line of point of release. Since RH backhand thrower places the right foot to the left of start position, your line back and through needs to be along this point, not where you start. I think the rest of the stuff follows if you do this correctly.

 

[sidewinder22]

Thanks to RandyC for this!

 

[RFrance]

Leverage vs. Momentum

Coach Daniel also does a great job of explaining leverage vs. momentum with a nice demo.

 

[Erik.SR]

Coach Daniel also does a great job of explaining leverage vs. momentum with a nice demo.

I'd say his theory side is wrong. Good luck prying ball this way, he cannot do it himself either. Fulcrum is point of support, in case of racket its effectively top of the grip. If you want to move fulcrum you would have to grip it from that point. And you don't gain any power from moving fulcrum closer to the ball, what you gain in force you give away in distance. Work done equals force over distance, power is work over time (equal on both sides).

 

[RFrance]

I'd say his theory side is wrong. Good luck prying ball this way, he cannot do it himself either. Fulcrum is point of support, in case of racket its effectively top of the grip. If you want to move fulcrum you would have to grip it from that point. And you don't gain any power from moving fulcrum closer to the ball, what you gain in force you give away in distance. Work done equals force over distance, power is work over time (equal on both sides).

My main take away from the video starts at 2:10 when he says by using leverage you can swing slower to create a decent amount of power to get a good hit and as you learn more and become proficient you can incorporate speed/momentum back into the swing to get a more powerful stroke using both leverage and momentum.

 

[sidewinder22]

 

[RFrance]

Yesterday I figured out that I've been losing efficiency by coming off the swing plane or twisting my axis of rotation by having a flat swing at the end instead of staying on the pendulum swing plane. That put a wobble in the swing by bending my axle. Also, I wasn't finishing completely and doing the GG wave goodbye. It was easy to fix those today and that led me to another tweak I needed. I was over rotating my shoulders like Malaska talks about around 29:45 mark. When I applied the brake a little I was able to get the arm to extend and swing out further and get the pop on the disc feeling. Little things can make a big difference.

 

[sidewinder22]

Rear leg kick.

 

[sidewinder22]

Force is straight.

Moment (Arm) of Inertia explains Orangutan Factor

 

[seedlings]

Appreciate your vids and insight sidewinder22. Once in a while I hit the golf ball like there's nothing on the tee and mashed. I don't think I've accidentally put all this together with a disc yet. I can get the 'floppy' dingle arm, the hip shoulder rotation that 'flings' my arms out fast (and all the blood rushes to fingertips). I know the pause/heel lift. But putting it together is way harder than driving a 3" nail in one hit.

It's like I'm tensing up whenever 'it counts' but can be floppy and accelerate in little drills.

 

[sidewinder22]

Appreciate your vids and insight sidewinder22. Once in a while I hit the golf ball like there's nothing on the tee and mashed. I don't think I've accidentally put all this together with a disc yet. I can get the 'floppy' dingle arm, the hip shoulder rotation that 'flings' my arms out fast (and all the blood rushes to fingertips). I know the pause/heel lift. But putting it together is way harder than driving a 3" nail in one hit.

It's like I'm tensing up whenever 'it counts' but can be floppy and accelerate in little drills.

 

[seedlings]

Bending a spoon is impossible. Realize there is no spoon. (Paraphrase The Matrix)

Trying to do all the mechanics while you throw is impossible. Realize you already know the mechanics, and feel the result of a good shot while you throw.

 

[Twistedhorse]

Usually collapsing is because players are pushing off of the rear leg...so the spine and rotation are centered on the back leg but we look at it on video relative to the front leg, so it looks collapsed.

Basically, pushing into rotation from the back leg is the most common cause of collapsing lead shoulder IMO. If you get onto the front leg before throwing, especially with the spine over the front leg and right shoulder closer to the target than your front hip, then your right arm should be pulled correctly rather than collapsing inward. Think like shoulder pulling the arm along for the ride vs. chest getting pushed in toward an extended arm.

Spine over the front leg and right shoulder close to the target? so lean forward over your front leg when reaching back? So shoulder pulling the disc instead of the arm interesting

 

[azplaya25]

Sometimes its hard to see the arm rotation on video, but check out these stills from the arm action of Josh Anthon on a flat shot. So much different than how most Ams are taught to throw flat by reaching straight back and pulling straight across their chest.

https://www.dgcoursereview.com/dgr/resources/analysis/joshanthon.shtml

 

[sidewinder22]

Drew throwing "Straight & Flat" or really 20 degree diagonal to the left and 20 degree hyzer flip up to fly flat-ish and straight-ish.